Can a Technics SL-1200G challenge the state of the art?

[Loheswaran]

Yep, nothing like a bellend for a platter attached directly to a motor to kill those pesky Belt drive tables ..

Not to worry i do have a couple DD myself so do understand the love hate between them all...

JVC Ql 10 and Sony tts 8000 have damped platters - EMT 950 light plastic platter. 33 and 45 rpm ain’t gonna rattle if at all - less moving parts too. You’re getting confused with idlers (even then good designs minimise rumble). Belts do damp vibration but a motor for a belt drive is usually going at say 250rpm - we have both the motor and the platter as separate rotating moving parts. Of course as you go higher up with either drive the way of dealing with the various ‘challenges’ improve. It’s essentially implementation and choice of compromise. My Townshend has a very high torque Berger Lahrs motor - my Amazon has very quiet DC affair using battery power. As I age I have become more timing sensitive hence the draw of the DD.

 

[mtemur]

I’m sorry it (Technics SL-1200G) cannot challenge a very good turntable let alone the state of the art. I really wanted to believe new 1200G to be a great turntable but it isn’t in my opinion. I highly doubt if it’s better than old 1200. SL-1000R isn’t great either in my book. Don’t let the market hype catch you. Sorry.

 

[Loheswaran]

I’m sorry it (Technics SL-1200G) cannot challenge a very good turntable let alone the state of the art. I really wanted to believe new 1200G to be a great turntable but it isn’t in my opinion. I highly doubt if it’s better than old 1200. SL-1000R isn’t great either in my book. Don’t let the market hype catch you. Sorry.

Yes
Can be very good though. Reminds me of the Denon DL103r. Or a souped up hot hatchback - you can take it so far

 

[daytona600]

Not S.O.T,A , but they did sell 3million & counting
SL1200G2 out later this year

 

[Loheswaran]

Not S.O.T,A , but they did sell 3million & counting
SL1200G2 out later this year

For my generation- it was the most important ‘deck’

 

[daytona600]

Current generation OJAS modified SL1200G
18-30yr olds & Women not like any hifi show

 

[BillK]

I’m sorry it (Technics SL-1200G) cannot challenge a very good turntable let alone the state of the art. I really wanted to believe new 1200G to be a great turntable but it isn’t in my opinion. I highly doubt if it’s better than old 1200. SL-1000R isn’t great either in my book. Don’t let the market hype catch you. Sorry.

I purchased an SL-1000R after demoing a number of tables/arms in the sub-$100K range and found it's hard to beat among the many tables I tried.

I don't know why you don't like it, but I'd definitely disagree.

 

[mtemur]

I purchased an SL-1000R after demoing a number of tables/arms in the sub-$100K range and found it's hard to beat among the many tables I tried.

I don't know why you don't like it, but I'd definitely disagree.

I heard SL-1000 at audio shows, not impressed. I also have SL-1000. It is a good turntable but I prefer well designed and built belt drives. YMMV.

 

[BillK]

Shows aren't a great environment for auditioning.

I'm never going back to belt drive, I can't imagine why now that cogging's been designed out of direct drives.

Then again I also think idler wheel drive is silly.

 

[Loheswaran]

Shows aren't a great environment for auditioning.

I'm never going back to belt drive, I can't imagine why now that cogging's been designed out of direct drives.

Then again I also think idler wheel drive is silly.

That’s a fair point. ‘Cogging’ was never as bad as some claimed - it was just an issue with the cheap decks. Speed stability to me and the absence of stylus drag affecting speed is more important to me - I personally have a high torque motor on one belt drive it’s superb but i terms of engineering it ultimately simply changes the cogging resonance going down the belt which in turn acts as a slipper clutch - ie 300rpm vibration down a belt vs at 33rpm. Your choice of compromises

 

[hogen]

I purchased an SL-1000R after demoing a number of tables/arms in the sub-$100K range and found it's hard to beat among the many tables I tried.

I don't know why you don't like it, but I'd definitely disagree.

I agree. I think the SL-1000R is very good indeed.

 

[hongkongfoufou]

I heard SL-1000 at audio shows, not impressed. I also have SL-1000. It is a good turntable but I prefer well designed and built belt drives. YMMV.

I agree, but in my system SL-1000R has a better sound than my VPI Classic 3....

 

[RickS]

The Technics 1200g is priced fairly and performs very well vs its main competition. But If I had the urge to go more state of the vinyl playback art, I’d spend more and get something else entirely. If i wanted a broadcast type table that could run all day Id probably look towards an EMT or something instead.

 

[godofwealth]

It’s worth pointing out that there are schools of turntable design that do not support the idea that more mass is always better. Linn has been making the LP-12 for 50 years, and it is definitely not a high mass turntable. More recently, Rega’s no holds barred Naiad turntable, which costs $35K pounds, is a very low mass design made with state of the art materials used in the aerospace industry.

The Rega Naiad Turntable – a product unlike any other

A product unlike any other, created to push Rega’s philosophies to the extreme and prove beyond doubt that our lifelong mantra of ultra-light weight, high rigidity plinths and the use of key materials in key areas are paramount in constructing any serious performance turntable.

www.rega.co.uk

 

[Maximus 57]

I have mixed felings regarding the SL 1200G. Shortcomings which are unaceptable in a €4500 TT. These are, poor W&F, poor VTA, short spindle when having the tonearm in a horizontal position. I have read that the parts were all designed and manufactured for this TT- not the case.

 

[dionisofun]

I have mixed felings regarding the SL 1200G. Shortcomings which are unaceptable in a €4500 TT. These are, poor W&F, poor VTA, short spindle when having the tonearm in a horizontal position. I have read that the parts were all designed and manufactured for this TT- not the case.

Replace the tonearm. It will be a big step.

 

[BillK]

I have mixed felings regarding the SL 1200G. Shortcomings which are unaceptable in a €4500 TT. These are, poor W&F, poor VTA, short spindle when having the tonearm in a horizontal position. I have read that the parts were all designed and manufactured for this TT- not the case.

This makes no sense.

How does a direct drive table have poor W&F?

Poor VTA? The VTA is adjustable, how is it "poor?"

 

[Audiohertz2]

I agree, but in my system SL-1000R has a better sound than my VPI Classic 3....

What tone arms and carts , how was the sound better ..?

 

[thedudeabides]

Hi there!

Thanks for responding to my thread. I was just wondering, you seem convinced that trying to turn the sow's ear that is an SL-1200 into a silk purse is a non-starter. Is that based on actual experience or is just your considered opinion?

I would advise you to totally disregard / ignore his opinion. IMHO, he is one of several WBF posters that has the "audio god" complex.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Hi there!

Thanks for responding to my thread. I was just wondering, you seem convinced that trying to turn the sow's ear that is an SL-1200 into a silk purse is a non-starter. Is that based on actual experience or is just your considered opinion?

I happen to think it can. To your points:

The platter is not especially light (3kg, okay much lighter than the 9kg of the AF3P) but consists of a three-layer sandwich of brass, cast aluminium with a deadening layer of styrene-butadiene rubber which gives it a very high ratio of rotational inertia to mass. The fused unit is then balanced on an high precision machine to extreme tolerances. This is way more advanced than the simple machined aluminum platter of the AF3P. It definitely doesn't ring. Have you tapped one?
View attachment 125261

The plinth construction is actually deceptively refined. The aluminium sub-chassis is screwed to the rubber "tub" (23 screws!) with a sandwiched layer of Bulk Moulding Compound in between. So the whole thing is extremely inert. I am really unsure how easy it will be to improve on this but it is something I will be looking into.
View attachment 125262

Yes, given the care they have put into other areas like the motor it seems surprising that the arm and armboard are so weak, but I will definitely be replacing both.

The suspension effectively relies on the feet and quite a lot of improvement can be made simply by swapping them out according to people I have spoken to who have tested different options. I have two sets of aftermarket feet inbound for testing so let's see how that bit goes. Afaik the AFP3 has no suspension at all.

Was just curious what you mean by small format/large format? As in full range? My -3dB point is somewhere below 20Hz so if it is bad I expect I will be able to hear it.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Appreciate all the input I can get!

Sorry for the lack of response , i had lost track of the thread until now ..!

Large /Small Format setups is not all about -3db down point , its size , dynamic expression and percussive energy of the system .

Having an 8” inch woofer in a 3way system with a 1” dome , even with subs will still be a small format system vs a large 4 way horn or 4 tower linesource for eg which would be a large format system..

Once you begin to modify the table its no longer a Technics Table IMO no way to comment on sound unheard.

Stock i stand behind my original statements..


Regards