Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[Argonaut]

are you Auidogod in another guise

More far reaching than you know

 

[hopkins]

I see the primary argument made today for streaming is "access to all the new music'.

It's not only about "new music". Digital provides easier access to older music as well. There is music that is rare on LP (or 78s) and also lots of music that simply has not been published before and that a few passionate collectors and record companies restore and issue on digital, for the benefit of many happy listeners (who often don't care about the format).

 

[Rexp]

If, like me, you don't get to play your records at the moment, here's a video that should bring back fond memories:

 

[facten]

that I have not heard is new music to me

I don't stream, but what you stated is the same context of what folks mean when they say they can discover new music via streaming. Aside from searching for themselves the platform I believe , someone correct if appropriate, also makes suggestions based upon your genre(s), artists and track selections

 

[Gregm]

.... the platform I believe , someone correct if appropriate, also makes suggestions based upon your genre(s), artists and track selections

Yes it does, and this can be great in rock, jazz, etc; In classical however, the platform doesn't (yet?) distinguish between mediocre and noteworthy performances -- which, in my case, is an important parameter since much of my listening is classical.
As per Time above, I feel I don't have the time left to click through the plethora of new or otherwise unknown to me performances.
Were I younger, that may have been a favourite pastime...

 

[Republicoftexas69]

are you Audiogod in another guise

Clearly.

 

[Audiofile]

What's the average record collection size around here ?

 

[Kingrex]

I would agree that digital cannot sound as good as vinyl.
Until my Horizon and tube rolling came along.
I am in heaven.
Now I don't stand up every 15 minutes to flip a record, clean, destatic, find albums, etc.
Call me lazy

Oddly what bothers me about digital is it becomes a never ending drone. I relish the few minutes of silence as I find a new record and put it on. It helps calm my brain and lets me reset for something new.

 

[PYP]

I see the primary argument made today for streaming is "access to all the new music'.

well, more like "new to me" (in my case). Since I enjoy reading the biographies of jazz musicians, I can follow along listening to what they listened to and were influenced by as well as more easily follow their own musical development. The reading experience therefore becomes richer and more meaningful.

And it may seem highfalutin, but surveying the vastness of music created across the globe gives me a renewed sense of the creative spirit, a welcome contrast with the upheaval in the world.

Overall, I like the serendipitous discovery of music that is new to me. I often quickly click past tracks but then there is the moment of the new find and reading about the musicians, viewing their discography and perhaps following links to "similar" music. My library now has more streaming content than ripped content.

Completely agree with you that you pick your path and enjoy it.

 

[Mcsnare]

@Audiofile and, as mentioned, the nuances matter. What the audience heard, is not what a vinyl lover can hear at home.

From the blog piece:

"First of all, no one outside a mastering studio will ever hear the quality of the lacquer. In the process of vinyl production (when pressing >10000 copies of an album), the lacquer is first converted to an intermediate negative copy, from which a ‘father’ is copied, from which various ‘mothers’ are copied, from which stampers are then made that are used in the actual pressing of the vinyl (which is also a copying process). This means there are four mechanical copies between the lacquer and the vinyl record you have at home, and with every copy some details get lost and noise is added.

Second, it is extremely rare for a vinyl record to be cut directly from the microphone feed."

Not completely accurate. For a one step, the first metal piece IS the stamper. In a three step, the 3rd metal piece is the stamper.
So for a one step the vinyl is 2 generations form the lacquer. In a three step the vinyl is the 4th gen from the lacquer.
BTW, 3 step doesn’t mean it’s always going to sound inferior. The most recent A.S. Kind Of Blue ( as well as the earlier Classic Records version) are 3 step. So is the latest A.S. Aja.

 

[Mcsnare]

Another reason why digital is superior as it's not dependent on the quality of any physical media

I prefer to say digital is technically superior to vinyl. Sonic superiority is a different discussion.

 

[wil]

Oddly what bothers me about digital is it becomes a never ending drone. I relish the few minutes of silence as I find a new record and put it on. It helps calm my brain and lets me reset for something new.

“Never ending drone” listening is about ones intentions, not the media. I usually listen to one album at a time, with the best focus I can. If I want music more in the background while working, that’s a different listening intention.

 

[Audiofile]

I prefer to say digital is technically superior to vinyl. Sonic superiority is a different discussion.

That's a good way to put it
But after reading this thread(not all of it)
I'm getting the vibe that not many would agree that digital is technically better

 

[Republicoftexas69]

That's a good way to put it
But after reading this thread(not all of it)
I'm getting the vibe that not many would agree that digital is technically better

You are entitled to think that. I enjoy Digital and Analog with my preference being analog sources. This is my preference and is what makes me happy, not going to argue it's merits nor dissuade from your opinions or preferences. You do you not here to argue.

 

[Mcsnare]

You are entitled to think that. I enjoy Digital and Analog with my preference being analog sources. This is my preference and is what makes me happy, not going to argue it's merits nor dissuade from your opinions or preferences. You do you not here to argue.

100%
I'm not here to argue either. And I certainly think it’s absurd to tell people what they should like.
The only reason I post is I’m in a position to know things that most audiophiles do not. My hope is my first hand experience can add some amount of truth to a murky subject.
I prefer listening to vinyl regardless of whether the lacquer was cut from tape or digital. I can also state that in the case of a digital recording and mix down, the CD or stream is as close to a clone of the master as anyone needs. The vinyl has some added deficiencies AND enhancements that I like.
In the case of a project mixed to tape, it’s not essential for sonics that the lacquers be cut from the tape. It comes down more to the taste, experience, skill level, and use of best practices of the engineer than what the format is or was.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

100%
I'm not here to argue either. And I certainly think it’s absurd to tell people what they should like.
The only reason I post is I’m in a position to know things that most audiophiles do not. My hope is my first hand experience can add some amount of truth to a murky subject.
I prefer listening to vinyl regardless of whether the lacquer was cut from tape or digital. I can also state that in the case of a digital recording and mix down, the CD or stream is as close to a clone of the master as anyone needs. The vinyl has some added deficiencies AND enhancements that I like.
In the case of a project mixed to tape, it’s not essential for sonics that the lacquers be cut from the tape. It comes down more to the taste, experience, skill level, and use of best practices of the engineer than what the format is or was.

Dave, I am glad you are here to share your insight and experiences. I have always enjoyed your work at PTA and now at Tracking Angle.

 

[wil]

I see the primary argument made today for streaming is "access to all the new music'. The second most common argument is "I can keep my ass in my chair and click around the clock" (convenience.) Streaming today as a front-end strikes me as largely an IT exercise. (How many of you streamers are in IT?)

Streaming doesn't only provide access to new music. I've found releases from artists, obscure gems, through the streaming catalog. From my experience, convenience and keeping my ass in the chair is not a factor at all in my choices. But I'm sure it is with some.

I'm about as far from being in IT as one could imagine and I think most people into high end streaming are the same. Some are more technically advanced than others but help is always available to the neanderthals like me. Setting up an optimal streaming network can be an adventure, and is really vital to getting streaming to the highest level. Setting up a cartridge optimally is pretty involved as well.

Stream on. And if you do, chill a bit and accept your choice -- too much anxiety goes into defending it, when there is no need. If someone says vinyl or tape is superior, so what, stay calm and embrace your choice if you have confidence in it.

Absolutely my view as well. I admit to getting triggered by what come across to me as arrogant, often ignorant, statements, which seem to serve no purpose other than ego stroking. I feel the same way toward simplistic statements promoting digital as superior. However, the later is in the distinct minority on this forum and the AudioGod was banished for his digital superior inanities.

My overall view on this digital/analog debate is that when one playback medium is compared to another the overwhelming determining factor lies is the recording/mastering quality. Perhaps a greater percentage of analog recordings (ie golden age recording from the 50's - 60's) are of the highest quality. Where I personally find digital fulfills my music needs is in the sheer number and ease of finding great recordings.

 

[Carlos269]

100%
I'm not here to argue either. And I certainly think it’s absurd to tell people what they should like.
The only reason I post is I’m in a position to know things that most audiophiles do not. My hope is my first hand experience can add some amount of truth to a murky subject.
I prefer listening to vinyl regardless of whether the lacquer was cut from tape or digital. I can also state that in the case of a digital recording and mix down, the CD or stream is as close to a clone of the master as anyone needs. The vinyl has some added deficiencies AND enhancements that I like.
In the case of a project mixed to tape, it’s not essential for sonics that the lacquers be cut from the tape. It comes down more to the taste, experience, skill level, and use of best practices of the engineer than what the format is or was.

Dave, It is pretty hard to get through to the group here on WBF. Keep them honest. Perhaps at some point they will realize that the euphonic sound of vinyl playback is not as accurate as digital playback. I think that you can find a few decades old posts of mine on the internet stating that, but unfortunately most audiophiles are blinded by ignorance. I remember telling MikeL back when he used to say that digital was “dumbing it down” how ironic that statement was.

I have made the statement, and furthermore demonstrated, that the most dominant factor ABOVE ALL things is the mastering of the recording. The gains in sound quality that can be obtained elsewhere pail in comparison with what great mastering yields. Perhaps you can give your first hand account of the power of the mastering process for those that are not as informed.

 

[Audiofile]

You are entitled to think that. I enjoy Digital and Analog with my preference being analog sources. This is my preference and is what makes me happy, not going to argue it's merits nor dissuade from your opinions or preferences. You do you not here to argue.

I'm not arguing at all
He said that digital is technically better
And to me that's an undisputed fact so I agreed with him .
Anyone can like whichever format they want , that's not the point at all.
The point is I don't feel many agree with the fact that digital is technically superior .

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I'm not arguing at all
He said that digital is technically better
And to me that's an undisputed fact so I agreed with him .
Anyone can like whichever format they want , that's not the point at all.
The point is I don't feel many agree with the fact that digital is technically superior .

Like I said I do not want to argue. You do you.