Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[Joe Whip]

Exactly. We all perceive things differently. Have been in rooms with vinyl that I thought didn’t sound good at all but the vinyl guys loved it. Same with digital. It is just the way folks are.

 

[the sound of Tao]

A $1000 plug and play turntable will blow away a SOTA digital source with most AAA records. It's not that Digital is crap, it's that most digital transfers are crap. This of course is only according to what I hear, you may hear it very differently.

Rex so you now have a $1000 vinyl setup that you hear as blowing away all digital?… excellent!! Given your deep pro video bent could you record some videos of your compares and share so I can get a better sense of what you are hearing.

 

[Kingrex]

Being that my setup seems to be much more revealing, I am aware the difference between Redbook and High Resolution files. The Redbook on my setup are a little hard and I only turn the volume to low 70 dbs. With High Rez, I am turning it all the way over. Up to the high 70, just touching 80 db. It seems more quiet. There is less glare, haze, hardness. Less distortion. I use to not bother seeking High Rez CD. I can see there is some value in them now. Maybe people who have not built themselves a good digital setup yet also lack good source material. I appreciate high resolution files now and will focus on procuring those in the future.

Just to shake it up, stopped at a record shop and got a couple Direct to Disc 45s and Deutsche Grammophone records. Ended up spending $140 on records.

 

[Mcsnare]

Lol. Were audiophiles saying that the Mofi records sounded "digital" before the "scandal" erupted?

I don't think so, but I never liked the sound of the majority of their vinyl remasters because I don't care for their taste in EQ. That is probably why the previous comparison favored the non-Mofi version.

 

[PeterA]

Ron, Rex, and who is the third?

Have you followed Steve since he tried Etsuro and got Horizon and Taiko? It seems that he is enjoying streaming now more than his AF1.

 

[Al M.]

Being that my setup seems to be much more revealing, I am aware the difference between Redbook and High Resolution files. The Redbook on my setup are a little hard and I only turn the volume to low 70 dbs. With High Rez, I am turning it all the way over. Up to the high 70, just touching 80 db. It seems more quiet. There is less glare, haze, hardness. Less distortion. I use to not bother seeking High Rez CD. I can see there is some value in them now. Maybe people who have not built themselves a good digital setup yet also lack good source material. I appreciate high resolution files now and will focus on procuring those in the future.

Just to shake it up, stopped at a record shop and got a couple Direct to Disc 45s and Deutsche Grammophone records. Ended up spending $140 on records.

If you have a problem with hardness and glare on Redbook and need to turn the volume down compared to "Hi Rez", it's your digital playback, not the format.

Listening at dB levels in the 70s just touching 80? I listen at peaks of 100 dBC, no problem, and often at averages around 90 dBC or not far below. But everything needs to align for minimum distortion, not just gear but also power and room acoustics. Banishing hardness is, well, hard. Took me quite a while to get there.

 

[Audiohertz2]

I will take a cartridge set up by someone with good ears without special tools, over a cartridge set up by microscope and special tools any day of the week. And spend the money saved on a better cartridges, good AAA records can be had cheap in the used market, just don't by the rare ones.

The tools are only as good as the tool using them ..

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Vinyl is not a passive hobby.

I learned from scratch with perseverance. Today, there are more tools -- gobs more tools -- to assist with setting up a tonearm and cartridge than there were 10-15 years ago. While experts make hay over a minutiae of fine details the basic mechanics are not that exotic. I"m not saying that the fine details are not worth studying or are not realities and I'm grateful there are those who continue to pursue them. I am saying its not hard to get a cartridge and tonearm very very close to right if you have a modicum of patience and are willing to take the time to understand how your tonearm operates. If you are not willing to learn, then fine -- point your remote at a box or your finger on a screen.

I"m not quite sure what to make of people who require an expert -- usually an expensive trip -- to change a cartridge. If you want to pay someone to show you how to catch a fish -- to give you training -- that's fine. But vinyl is not a passive hobby and imo that's a good thing. That is part of the enjoyment of doing vinyl.

The key is what bonzo said, at least partly -- you need to have a reference, you need to know what to listen for. You cannot hit a target if you don't know where it is. You don't need the best equipment and you don't need golden ears but you should know how to listen. I thnk that's true across an entire audio system.

Tim, i agree that it's hard to separate ownership of the whole vinyl process from the full intake of the musical side of vinyl. you can choose to keep set-up at arms length, but that will then be a constant brake on your vinyl flow. how can it not be? hearing the differences during set-up and understanding cause and effect of changes made is an underpinning of optimization over time. being exact and perfect is secondary to having a feel for things. which comes from doing.

and curating your vinyl collection is another part of the 'vinyl process' equation. which includes organization and a cleaning regimen. it does not need to be exhaustive, but it needs to be yours. Sunday i cleaned, and yesterday listened to, 15 Debussy pressings, read the back covers, listened to at least half a side on each. right now i'm in the middle of listening to 10 'Lute' pressings, the composer mostly Dowland, the artist mostly O'Dette, which i cleaned yesterday. talk about getting close to the music. i'm living it. with Debussy i'm in late 19th and early 20th century Paris, with Dowland i'm in 16th and 17th century London. the music and history is intertwined. i'm sure i'm just a piker compared to some experts here. but for me personally this is seeing the world, and connecting history and music's place, through the music. the vinyl process is delivering an experience. it slows you down to smell the flowers.

yesterday and today i'm cleaning 40 Dvorak pressings, won't get to listening to those until tomorrow.

 

[Kingrex]

If you have a problem with hardness and glare on Redbook and need to turn the volume down compared to "Hi Rez", it's your digital playback, not the format.

Listening at dB levels in the 70s just touching 80? I listen at peaks of 100 dBC, no problem, and often at averages around 90 dBC or not far below. But everything needs to align for minimum distortion, not just gear but also power and room acoustics. Banishing hardness is, well, hard. Took me quite a while to get there.

I would happily wear earplugs while listening with you. Maybe you play so loud you damaged your hearing where you can't tell the difference between Redbook and High Resolution files. I was not able to listen to music of be around loud noise like driving in a car for close to 2.weeks after listening with Marty. He likes that intense volume level. I find it physically painful and have to plug my ears when exposed to it.

The last couple concerts I went to the volume was only around 76db. There is no reason a stereo should be played so loud. When a concert is louder, I wear earplugs and accept its more about the experience than the music.