Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[Mike Lavigne]

Hey @all - not getting too much response in my thread, so I thought I´d join in here.

So - has anyone here gotten anywhere near a point where you could say, that digital is as satisfying as analog (not necessarily equal - but just as enjoyable?).

i would re-frame your question to be; "based on my level of analog, what level of digital will not make me be conscious of it's shortfalls?" where is that sweet spot?" if you use 'as satisfying as analog'.....then you are unlikely to ever hit the mark. but how can i be able to go back and forth from digital to analog and just listen? and just follow the music.

in direct head to head with good vinyl gear and good pressings, digital will be exposed to some degree. if you stick with modern pressings which are mostly digital sourced, or mostly reissues, then the compare is less profound toward the vinyl. so i think the main question to ask is how does your vinyl collection look? it's also about your turntable gear and phono stage, but much more about pressing quality. maybe even musical tastes.

this whole 'equally satisfying' idea is a stickler. but it is reasonable to have digital that gets past it's artifacts and can satisfy on it's own merits and not relative to the vinyl directly. so expectations have to be managed.

If so - at what cost and what steps were necessary, what brought the biggest improvement.

i'm no expert on the modest level of dacs and servers. i know there are some really great products at a good spot on the price value curve. but others might need to suggest stuff. personally i did find my own answer to your question, but it's not real world stuff. so not relevant to your question.

B nice to hear just a few thoughts, before I read through all 86 pages here... like "DAC biggest improvement, or galvaic isolation necessary, or dedicated server opposed to iMac, or CD opposed to streaming"... maybe you can give me some insight as to whether it`s possible and how to go about bringing digital to a higher level... thanks

hope you find your answers.

 

[skinnyfla]

i would re-frame your question to be; "based on my level of analog, what level of digital will not make me be conscious of it's shortfalls?" where is that sweet spot?" if you use 'as satisfying as analog'.....then you are unlikely to ever hit the mark. but how can i be able to go back and forth from digital to analog and just listen? and just follow the music.

in direct head to head with good vinyl gear and good pressings, digital will be exposed to some degree. if you stick with modern pressings which are mostly digital sourced, or mostly reissues, then the compare is less profound. so i think the main question to ask is how does you vinyl collection look? it's also about your turntable gear and phono stage, but much more about pressing quality. maybe even musical tastes.

this whole 'equally satisfying' idea is a stickler. but it is reasonable to have digital that gets past it's artifacts and can satisfy on it's own merits and not relative to the vinyl directly. so expectations have to be managed.

i'm no expert on the modest level of dacs and servers. i know there are some really great products at a good spot on the price value curve. but others might need to suggest stuff. personally i did find my own answer to your question, but it's not real world stuff. so not relevant to your question.

hope you find your answers.

Hey Mike - thanks - great to get some response... German here and no native speaker, so maybe the phrasing did not get to the point as could have, thanks again.

I will take your re-frame - as it is exactly what I was aiming for.

Here goes my current analog

Brinkmann Lagrange with Brinkmann arm and Miyajima MC cartidge
Consolidated Audio Step Up Transformer
all via Cardas clear beyond
McIntosh C52 MM ... to C452... to Wilson Audio Sasha DAW

... looking for answers... happy for any suggestions...

Best,

Christoph

 

[Kingrex]

... did some reading of the first few pages and taking @Ron Resnick s advice... investing in a Baltic4 might do the trick just to take a leap forward in digital playback... I come from a similar background than @ScottK , as far as listening habits go, I play vinyl 90% of the time when seriously listening in the evening... still I have many many CDs (all ripped via dBpoweramp to lossless WAV and sitting on my IMac, which is my Roon Core) and some new music I like is only available as download from Qobuz and such... I want to be able to play these local files and the music at a level, that ist good but affordable, considering it only takes 10% of my listening time... any alternatives if I may ask? I threw in the Canor 2.10 in the other thread...?

I wouldn't waste my time with a tube based DAC unless my listening was highly focued to digital. And, I was interested in spending my time listening to the DAC and shaping the sound.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

@hopkins
I included his video as an illustration of a point of view which I think is shared by a number of other audiophiles. There is nothing to criticize in what he says. It is just his feeling about digital versus analog. Maybe he has not heard this or that source - neither have many others.





I'm not talking about comments which are agreeing or disagreeing , nor about referencing videos, I'm talking about this type "personal" cheapshot comment "I am not buying either brand and find Jay to be full o himself and only watch for a laugh".

And that is my opinion, as is yours about my comment. Call it what you like it is my opinion and has not changed.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hey Mike - thanks - great to get some response... German here and no native speaker, so maybe the phrasing did not get to the point as could have, thanks again.

hi Christoph, welcome to WBF.

I will take your re-frame - as it is exactly what I was aiming for.

Here goes my current analog

Brinkmann Lagrange with Brinkmann arm and Miyajima MC cartidge
Consolidated Audio Step Up Transformer
all via Cardas clear beyond
McIntosh C52 MM ... to C452... to Wilson Audio Sasha DAW

nice system!

how would you describe your vinyl collection? mostly early pressings? reissues? originals? what type of music do you listen to on vinyl?

... looking for answers... happy for any suggestions...

Best,

Christoph

best, Mike

 

[skinnyfla]

hi Christoph, welcome to WBF.



nice system!

how would you describe your vinyl collection? mostly early pressings? reissues? originals? what type of music do you listen to on vinyl?

best, Mike

... thanks 4 the welcome ... about 2.500 albums... very mixed... not necessarily audiophile, I enjoy early punk and ska over folk and country to some jazz... have been collecting and into music since a teenager and am 48 now... so things have just grown with me... what can I say... I would always say I am more of a music lover and the hobby of HiFi has grown and changed with my path... I always say, early punk bands grow older, sometimes they discover that they can not only scream but also sing... then that distorted guitars can also be played acustic,... then they approach the singer/songwriter stuff as they get older and finally end up playing folk and country... without loosing their roots... analog to this, listening habits change and thus the requirement for the system... I want to play an early clash record and enjoy as much as modern audiophile recordings... so my vinyl collection has just grown with me and includes everything from early to today... ;-)

 

[thedudeabides]

Even the more vocal supporters of digital audio sometimes seem like they are really trying to convince themselves rather than others.

How could you possibly know that?

 

[AudioGod]

Reasons I will never get vinyl :
.1. I'm too fat and lazy to get up every few minutes .
2.I don't want to be limited to a small number of albums .
3.Streaming has an infinite amount of albums .
4.I can't be bothered with cleaning records .
5.Digital is light years ahead technically and sonically.(To me at least )
6. I don't need "emotions" in my music just transparency to allow me to analyze the music and be closest to the original master.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

... about 2.500 albums... very mixed... not necessarily audiophile, I enjoy early punk and ska over folk and country to some jazz... have been collecting and into music since a teenager and am 48 now... so things have just grown with me... what can I say... I would always say I am more of a music lover and the hobby of HiFi has grown and changed with my path... I always say, early punk bands grow older, sometimes they discover that they can not only scream but also sing... then that distorted guitars can also be played acustic,... then they approach the singer/songwriter stuff as they get older and finally end up playing folk and country... without loosing their roots... analog to this, listening habits change and thus the requirement for the system... I want to play an early clash record and enjoy as much as modern audiophile recordings... so my vinyl collection has just grown with me and includes everything from early to today... ;-)

sounds like a satisfying collection; congrats.

since it seems like you are not into old classical or much old jazz, at least you don't mention it, and these are where you find the most profound sonic differences in pressings. which would up the cost of the digital to compete. finding digital to be reasonably compatible should not prove too painful. some high rez transfers of pop and rock can be very good listening with a solid dac and server.

hope you get some great suggestions.

 

[skinnyfla]

sounds like a satisfying collection; congrats.

since it seems like you are not into old classical or much old jazz, at least you don't mention it, and these are where you find the most profound sonic differences in pressings. which would up the cost of the digital to compete. finding digital to be reasonably compatible should not prove too painful. some high rez transfers of pop and rock can be very good listening with a solid dac and server.

hope you get some great suggestions.

thanks and nope - not much old classical or old jazz in my collection... still the quality of some recordings from small/independent labels stuns me... even if not "audiophile" in the classic way... thinking maybe a DAC like the Canor 2.10 or a midsized Lampizator will do the job... right now I just use the integrated DAC in the McIntosh C52 pre... and that actually does not even sound all that bad...

 

[thedudeabides]

Compared to vinyl playback I think digital playback physically is "plug and play."

That's one of the reasons why people like it. There are certainly others.

 

[PeterA]

... did some reading of the first few pages and taking @Ron Resnick s advice... investing in a Baltic4 might do the trick just to take a leap forward in digital playback...

Does Ron listen much to his digital? From reading his thread comments, it seems he listens 100% to analog, mostly tape, and that the digital is really only for friends who come to visit and want to select different music.

 

[PeterA]

Reasons I will never get vinyl :

3.Streaming has an infinite amount of albums .

I have a number of LPs that to my knowledge have never been released on digital. So, streaming can not truly have an infinite number of albums.

 

[AudioGod]

I have a number of LPs that to my knowledge have never been released on digital. So, streaming can not truly have an infinite number of albums.

Yeah but Spotify etc has 5 million albums
I could never afford it on vinyl

 

[PeterA]

Yeah but Spotify etc has 5 million albums
I could never afford it on vinyl

You could never afford it, and I don’t have the time to ever listen to all of it. But that’s great, 5 million albums offers a lot of choice for those who are satisfied with streaming quality.

There is no question that streaming opens up a very large number of choices. Some still prefer CDs. My only point is that some enjoy vinyl in part because they have a great existing collection of LPs and some are not available in any other format. Just pointing out the digital choice is not infinite. No big deal.

 

[AudioGod]

There is no question that streaming opens up a very large number of choices. Some still prefer CDs. My only point is that some enjoy vinyl in part because they have a great existing collection of LPs and some are not available in any other format. Just pointing out the digital choice is not infinite. No big deal.

What's available on vinyl that's not available on digital ? Do you have any examples ?

 

[hopkins]

What's available on vinyl that's not available on digital ? Do you have any examples ?

There is plenty not available on streaming services that is available on CD.

There are also plenty that are available on streaming services but with bad masterings.

There are less available on LP ONLY, but a sufficient amount for me to purchase a turntable and ADC. Obviously, it all pre-dates digital. But the QUANTITY is not the issue, when you love an artist.

Here's one (my own low quality rip):

Ever heard of Eddie Durham? I didn't think so

 

[Republicoftexas69]

There is plenty not available on streaming services that is available on CD.

There are also plenty that are available on streaming services but with bad masterings.

There are less available on LP ONLY, but a sufficient amount for me to purchase a turntable and ADC. Obviously, it all pre-dates digital. But the QUANTITY is not the issue, when you love an artist.

Here's one (my own low quality rip):

Ever heard of Eddie Durham? I didn't think so

Plenty out there on vinyl on the secondary market, more than you know.

 

[wil]

I have a number of LPs that to my knowledge have never been released on digital. So, streaming can not truly have an infinite number of albums.

Whoever said streaming has every album in existence?

Speaking only for myself, I’ve made the choice that I prefer exploring the wonders of music through streaming rather than being confined to searching out golden age recordings. This would feel very narrowing to me, but I can understand how it’s very satisfying for those that want to go that route.

 

[hopkins]

Plenty out there on vinyl on the secondary market, more than you know.

Did I imply otherwise?