Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[Kingrex]

Rex, what genre sound better on digital or vinyl? Not doubting your experience, but it seems to me it should come down to each individual recording, not genre or playback technology.

How about this, even my 15 ips tape does little for my Van Halen and Who.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I truly think that digital getting to the sound quality levels of analog requires a financial commitment that some may be unwilling or unable to make. I have a decent digital front end and compared to many here my digital and analog front ends are sub standard. What is key for me is that I derive great pleasure listening to either of them . I really only care about my little listening space and I am quite content here.

 

[ssfas]

Elsewhere someone recommended Amandine Beyer, a French violinist specialising in baroque. I've only heard her perform once live in London, 10 years ago, and only listened seriously to one of her recordings (Caldara trio sonatas) 7 or 8 years ago. So on Saturday I streamed 7 or 8 of her albums, skipping some that didn't interest me. I've made a point to go and see her if she comes over here. Then last night I listened to some jazz on vinyl. I have the records so I play them. I wouldn't not listen to anything by Amandine Beyer because there's nothing of hers on vinyl. I often stream jazz when I'm too lazy to flip discs and just want to sit back and listen. Digital v vinyl is not a conflict here, having both just gives me more options.

 

[Kingrex]

I truly think that digital getting to the sound quality levels of analog requires a financial commitment that some may be unwilling or unable to make. I have a decent digital front end and compared to many here my digital and analog front ends are sub standard. What is key for me is that I derive great pleasure listening to either of them . I really only care about my little listening space and I am quite content here.

Owe baa on anyone saying your gear is substandard. Thats pretention.

You can leapfrog any source. My digital was as good as my R2R until I got a direct wired out head with NAB/IEC/PRE. Now my tape is best.
Digital can easily be your best source. Or Vinyl. Pick a focus and go for it. What you select for your own personal reasons will be your best source. If your hardcore classical and old jazz, try vinyl. Lots of media available. If your all other music, try digital. Again, lots of music.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Owe baa on anyone saying your gear is substandard. Thats pretention.

You can leapfrog any source. My digital was as good as my R2R until I got a direct wired out head with NAB/IEC/PRE. Now my tape is best.
Digital can easily be your best source. Or Vinyl. Pick a focus and go for it. What you select for your own personal reasons will be your best source. If your hardcore classical and old jazz, try vinyl. Lots of media available. If your all other music, try digital. Again, lots of music.

Not sure what language you are speaking here.

 

[Lagonda]

Not sure what language you are speaking here.

It's his native Klingon !

 

[gleeds]

Hi Scott,

Are you completely averse for some reason to a tube DAC?

If not, forget tens of thousands of dollars more, and just get a Baltic 4 (MSRP around $6,500) and see (ah, hear) what you think. If the Baltic 4 brings you closer to analog sound, then you can be pretty sure you would love a Horizon. If you like the Baltic 4, a Horizon likely would close some of that remaining 10% gap.

Scott, since I own a Baltic 4, spent three days with Lampi's new Poseidon DAC and have spent countless hours both at trade shows and at Steve Williams', please allow me to add to what Ron said.

The Baltic 4 is a wonderful DAC and best among all that I have tried below 15k. It's sound allows me to relax into digital in a similar way I do to top level analog. That being said, in a system of your caliber the Poseidon and Horizon are in another league entirely and will never sound homogenized. While retaining much of the analog experience you prefer - ease, liquidity, tone density and just plain more fun to listen to - those models also offer more detail, dynamics bass power and space that the Baltic simply cannot match. So, not to take issue with my friend Ron. In short, I believe the Poseidon and Horizon are among the few units that will get you there regardless of spend.

 

[Kingrex]

It's his native Klingon !

Kinggon.

 

[adrianywu]

Vinyl can be very frustrating due to the inconsistency of the medium itself and the quality of the mastering. I guess Tom Port of Better Records has a business model built on this premise. Having review sites and sites such as WBF helps to some extent. With a great LP, vinyl can sound amazing. The difficulty is in finding a great LP. As my system gets better, I find faults and deficiencies in more and more of the modern reissue LPs. With second hand LPs, at least they are cheap, but buying multiple versions of a favorite recording on reissue labels can get expensive. While a lot of music on streaming is also not well mastered, at least no money is wasted. In general, I have more luck with the master tape copies that I got from several reliable sources. I would say about 80% of my tape copies perform to my liking. As for LPs, the percentage is only about 15%, and I end up just playing the few dozen titles. To be fair, most of my LPs are original releases I bought during the late 70s and throughout the 80s, but many of these (mostly classical) were actually released in the 1960s since I bought mostly second hand when I was a student. I am going to investigate whether 4 tract 7.5 ips R2R is a more reliable analogue source, and I am still waiting for my 4 track Revox to arrive.

 

[Ron Resnick]

There is NO hiss and NO background noise of any kind with a great turntable

I find that arguments are more persuasive when the assertion is not an exaggeration.

 

[Audiofreak71]

There are so many factors to have a vinyl rig to have limited or no pops and crackles. I have some pressings that are silent and unless there are no rogue hairs and dust there will be some pops or crackles.

With that said I have played a whole side of a very good pressing with zero pops and crackles, but it’s the nature of the beast with vinyl and those who can’t deal with the pops and crackles need not apply.

This past year I have been working to get my digital rig to a higher standard, I bought a dedicated streamer a NUC computer and have an upgraded router & modem on the way. I have a pure silver usb cable and streaming DSD has taken my digital to a whole different level, I am very impressed.

I love both digital and analog and with my aging self and 20yrs retired combat vet I truly appreciate streaming and not having to get up and down so often it helps me a lot. But I also love the ritual and sound that vinyl brings so I will spin it as long as I can.

 

[Rexp]

There are so many factors to have a vinyl rig to have limited or no pops and crackles. I have some pressings that are silent and unless there are no rogue hairs and dust there will be some pops or crackles.

With that said I have played a whole side of a very good pressing with zero pops and crackles, but it’s the nature of the beast with vinyl and those who can’t deal with the pops and crackles need not apply.

This past year I have been working to get my digital rig to a higher standard, I bought a dedicated streamer a NUC computer and have an upgraded router & modem on the way. I have a pure silver usb cable and streaming DSD has taken my digital to a whole different level, I am very impressed.

I love both digital and analog and with my aging self and 20yrs retired combat vet I truly appreciate streaming and not having to get up and down so often it helps me a lot. But I also love the ritual and sound that vinyl brings so I will spin it as long as I can.

Cool, are you using streaming services or files and what software?

 

[Audiofreak71]

Cool, are you using streaming services or files and what software?

I use Qobuz and have both Roon and Audirvana as well as a 4tb HD that has DSD files on it. I recently found out that Audirvana will upconvert all files to DSD I trialed it first and was impressed with the sound quality so I subscribed.

 

[Al M.]

I find that arguments are more persuasive when the assertion is not an exaggeration.

When, albeit in a somewhat less diplomatic manner, I pushed back along those lines it was insinuated by the poster that I believed the Earth was flat, which is pretty funny.

 

[Zeotrope]

I find that arguments are more persuasive when the assertion is not an exaggeration.

I agree, and I am not exaggerating.
I have (ever so slightly) more background noise with the Taiko Extreme than from the Nagra TT.
And my ~105dB horns in a small room amplify everything - I hear some background hiss all the time (DarTZeel is working on a fix) - so this is the perfect baseline from which to compare noise from sources.

 

[ssfas]

I agree, and I am not exaggerating.
I have (ever so slightly) more background noise with the Taiko Extreme than from the Nagra TT.
And my ~105dB horns in a small room amplify everything - I hear some background hiss all the time (DarTZeel is working on a fix) - so this is the perfect baseline from which to compare noise from sources.

I don't get any background noise from my digital audio equipment and I haven't for years. I also mostly listen to modern recordings, classical or jazz. My vinyl can be dead quiet, but it seems to be 95% down to the pressing and recording quality. A little bit of background noise on vinyl doesn't bother me, on digital it can be an issue.

So I would agree with @Ron Resnick, to get no noise or hiss with vinyl you must be very selective on your recordings/pressings.

 

[Joe Whip]

You can’t hear tape hiss on vinyl sourced from tape?

 

[Zeotrope]

I don't get any background noise from my digital audio equipment and I haven't for years. I also mostly listen to modern recordings, classical or jazz. My vinyl can be dead quiet, but it seems to be 95% down to the pressing and recording quality. A little bit of background noise on vinyl doesn't bother me, on digital it can be an issue.

So I would agree with @Ron Resnick, to get no noise or hiss with vinyl you must be very selective on your recordings/pressings.

Let me clear - the noise I hear would probably be inaudible on most systems, especially without >100 dB speakers powered by >100 W amps.
I am saying the Nagra TT is slightly quieter than the Taiko Extreme, which is an ultra-quiet streamer. That's how quiet the Nagra is!

 

[Zeotrope]

You can’t hear tape hiss on vinyl sourced from tape?

If it's in the recording, yes. But you would be surprised how rare that is, even when sourced from tape. For example, all the DG Original Source I have played so far (about 7 of the albums) are dead quiet.

 

[Joe Whip]

I hear tape hiss quite often in older recordings on tape. Of course, I listen to digital exclusively at this point.