I have 5 speaker set-up's using combination of waveguides and horns. 4 of them image very well and have depth so from my point of view I don't agree completely. The outlier is a DIY of JBL 4344 monitors, they can image but not as well the more modern set-ups.
Rob
HelloThere is depth and then there is projection.
I will say that IME the most critical aspect is the crossover and if a designer can get this 'right', then it should project pretty much regardless of approach.
I don't think it's a "Fair criticism". Many old horn speakers and some of recent design simply shows a more prominent sound towards the listener.Is it a fair criticism of the horn technology? For which brands?
And Why?
Thanks in advance
I am just genuinely perplexed how any speaker with a horn tweeter suddenly becomes a "horn speaker". Surely on a platform dedicated to what is best, a horn speaker should be just that, a full range no compromise horn or at least a speaker where anything above bass is horn loaded? A 2-way box with crossover in the kilos is surely not a horn speaker? The way efficiency is sacrificed in the name of flat response by a myriad of energy-sapping eq does not even qualify these contraptions as HE.
Hello
What do you mean by projection?? Do you mean up close and in your face if it's a close mic recording?? For example band behind the singer??
I tend to think polar response is more critical. My outlier system is old school flat on axis with a not much attention to the uniformity of the polars. The baffle layout puts the HF driver and UHF side by side. This arrangement is hard to change because the vertical directivity gets so narrow that if you stacked them you might hear 2 sources. They have to be listened to on the HF/UHF axis so it is head in vise to get the best out of them.
Rob
I have been doing something similar for some years. I started with tweeters only and expanded to upper mids, using the bass horn flare as a reflective surface. I have found the effect on ambience retrieval phenomenal while before and after occasional visitors have invariably commented on the sheer size and precision of the "new" soundstage. The drivers I use for this indirect application are not what I would normally prefer but I have found the horn chosen for the "ambient" function to be important.I'm going to go out on a limb and claim that my hybrid horn systems ("hybrid" because I use direct-radiating woofers) can do the 3-D thing pretty well.
Briefly, about thirteen years ago I started using additional drivers dedicated to the reverberant field in pursuit of richer timbre. With some configurations, an unexpected side-effect seemed to show up: Hearing "more of the recording venue" and "less of the playback room". Details if anyone is interested.
Cesar,
What is the point of your “horns can do this” posts? Go listen to a bunch of horns and then make your own decision. Random “aggressiveness,” “brightnes,” soundstage,”
Etc questions are irrelevant.
sincerely,
WBF Members.
I'm going to go out on a limb and claim that my hybrid horn systems ("hybrid" because I use direct-radiating woofers) can do the 3-D thing pretty well.
Briefly, about thirteen years ago I started using additional drivers dedicated to the reverberant field in pursuit of richer timbre. With some configurations, an unexpected side-effect seemed to show up: Hearing "more of the recording venue" and "less of the playback room". Details if anyone is interested.
Well, there's Covid, family, work, other hobbies, time, and money.Cesar,
What is the point of your “horns can do this” posts? Go listen to a bunch of horns and then make your own decision. Random “aggressiveness,” “brightnes,” soundstage,” etc questions are irrelevant.
sincerely,
WBF Members.
The drivers I use for this indirect application are not what I would normally prefer but I have found the horn chosen for the "ambient" function to be important.
By projection I mean extending the soundstage well into space in front of where center stage is. Some test tracks I use create full circles around a listener. Others do waves of music that rush at you and then pull back.
I would love to know how you have implemented your solution.
Please, share more details about this, I found it a fascinating subject.
I haven't heard a speaker with an ambience tweeter, but I always had the perception/idea that, for a somewhat dead sounding room (specially the wall behind the speakers), a back mounted tweeter crossover over 10khz (for example), would be a very nice idea.
Jdza, if you don't mind me asking, WHAT IN THE WORLD made you decide to try the additional tweeters, and then the additional upper-mids as well, firing INTO your bass horn flares? Shooting sound off in other directions is highly counter-intuitive for a horn system, though obviously I think it's a good idea. I think you are the first person I've come across who is doing this on their own.I have been doing something similar for some years. I started with tweeters only and expanded to upper mids, using the bass horn flare as a reflective surface. I have found the effect on ambience retrieval phenomenal while before and after occasional visitors have invariably commented on the sheer size and precision of the "new" soundstage. The drivers I use for this indirect application are not what I would normally prefer but I have found the horn chosen for the "ambient" function to be important.
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