I heard a much smaller VS speaker in Munich, I was impressed, one of the better rooms there in my opinion! It is likely these were very impressive at the Capital AudioFest.
Capital AudioFest 2024
- Thread starter Tuckers
- Start date
I'm surprised folks would schedule an audio show in D.C. right after what turned out to be an "eventful" election in the US. I'm not surprised attendance was down. I chalk it down to folks busy either celebrating (!) or commiserating, both with copious amounts of alcohol.
The attendance was lighter than I expected Saturday and Sunday. I'm going to throw out a few hot takes here.
First I might as well get out my most controversial experience. The new Von Schweikert VR30 speakers - there was something off to my ears. I've heard VR speakers a number of times, the last few with Lampizator DACs and Westminster electronics, and I really liked the sound. The room this year had much the same setup, but with the VR30s. I visited the room 4 times and heard a number of tracks that I know well. With voice and instruments the musicians sounded like they were hitting different notes, almost like it was playing in a different key, or they were playing in a different range than I know from those tracks. Now, I don't have perfect pitch at all, but I noticed this each time I visited. I have no great way to explain this.
I enjoyed listeining to the MC Audiotech room with LTA electronics. They were showing a smaller version of their flagship speaker with their wideband driver. They succeeded in scaling down sound from the much larger flagship. It still has this ineffable magic to the midrange and treble that I heard with the flagship, but shrunk to more reasonable dimensions. I was surprised that I could hear this unique way of presenting music, that sounds so realistic to me, I had forgotten about the magic of this driver. I wrote about the flagship when it was at THE Show Orange County.
Music was most fun in the 11Stereophonic room with OCD Mikey. I only know him from Youtube and some kerfuffles he has been involved with over the years, and I was not predisposed to like it. But pure music came out of this room, great rock and roll, real boogie feet, and no feeling of analysis, or 'HiFi Sound". All from some very small bookshelf speakers that have slate enclousures.
My favorite room was the Margules suite. Every time I visited I felt a strong emotional connection to the musicians. That is so unusual in show conditions, and rare outside it.
First I might as well get out my most controversial experience. The new Von Schweikert VR30 speakers - there was something off to my ears. I've heard VR speakers a number of times, the last few with Lampizator DACs and Westminster electronics, and I really liked the sound. The room this year had much the same setup, but with the VR30s. I visited the room 4 times and heard a number of tracks that I know well. With voice and instruments the musicians sounded like they were hitting different notes, almost like it was playing in a different key, or they were playing in a different range than I know from those tracks. Now, I don't have perfect pitch at all, but I noticed this each time I visited. I have no great way to explain this.
I enjoyed listeining to the MC Audiotech room with LTA electronics. They were showing a smaller version of their flagship speaker with their wideband driver. They succeeded in scaling down sound from the much larger flagship. It still has this ineffable magic to the midrange and treble that I heard with the flagship, but shrunk to more reasonable dimensions. I was surprised that I could hear this unique way of presenting music, that sounds so realistic to me, I had forgotten about the magic of this driver. I wrote about the flagship when it was at THE Show Orange County.
Music was most fun in the 11Stereophonic room with OCD Mikey. I only know him from Youtube and some kerfuffles he has been involved with over the years, and I was not predisposed to like it. But pure music came out of this room, great rock and roll, real boogie feet, and no feeling of analysis, or 'HiFi Sound". All from some very small bookshelf speakers that have slate enclousures.
My favorite room was the Margules suite. Every time I visited I felt a strong emotional connection to the musicians. That is so unusual in show conditions, and rare outside it.
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Agree with some comments mentioned above -- the MBL room was a disappointment IMO. The Borresens C3's at $38K powered by an AAvik integrated sounded amazing. The Focal room with the $240K + Grand Utopias with REL 32's powered by T&A gear was exceptional as well. It was a disappointment not to see ARC 330's Monos but Val was prominent with his Acora Acoustics VRC-1 speakers in beautiful "Sunset Fire" in the VAC room powered by a pair of VAC 450iQ mono blocks. He also had amazing $4K speakers (MRC series) which sounded great IMO. The VAC room with either speaker sounded exceptional (they had a SAT XD1 TT but wasn't playing when I stopped by -- over $300K w/tone arm).
I was impressed with the SonoruS Reel to Reel in the Luxury Audio Group room playing thru Estelon XB speakers was an eye opener. $35K for the R-R which has several 12v tubes as drivers. As I was leaving the room -- MF entered and had a tape he wanted the host to play. Maybe we'll read of his impressions shortly.
Good turn out Friday and as I was leaving Saturday mid-day - traffic had picked up a bit but was nice to be at an audio event and not be trampled in the hallways (aka RMAF days). Good turn out from what I could tell - couldn't compare previous years as this was my first since the closure of RMAF. I was greatly disappointed by the selection of MOFI SACD material -- were nonexistent even though they did offer a free Ultradisc One-Step with purchase of 3 at regular pricing. I didn't bite.
Best to all,
Bob
Borresen C3's w/Aavik integrated
Focal Grand Utopia w/REL 32 subs and T+A Gear
VAC room w/Acora Acoustics VRC-1 speakers in gorgeous "Sunset Fire" Granite
SonoruS Reel to Reel in the Luxury Audio Group room playing thru Estelon XB speakers
SonoruS R-R (3 or 4 tube drivers)
I was impressed with the SonoruS Reel to Reel in the Luxury Audio Group room playing thru Estelon XB speakers was an eye opener. $35K for the R-R which has several 12v tubes as drivers. As I was leaving the room -- MF entered and had a tape he wanted the host to play. Maybe we'll read of his impressions shortly.
Good turn out Friday and as I was leaving Saturday mid-day - traffic had picked up a bit but was nice to be at an audio event and not be trampled in the hallways (aka RMAF days). Good turn out from what I could tell - couldn't compare previous years as this was my first since the closure of RMAF. I was greatly disappointed by the selection of MOFI SACD material -- were nonexistent even though they did offer a free Ultradisc One-Step with purchase of 3 at regular pricing. I didn't bite.
Best to all,
Bob
Borresen C3's w/Aavik integrated
Focal Grand Utopia w/REL 32 subs and T+A Gear
VAC room w/Acora Acoustics VRC-1 speakers in gorgeous "Sunset Fire" Granite
SonoruS Reel to Reel in the Luxury Audio Group room playing thru Estelon XB speakers
SonoruS R-R (3 or 4 tube drivers)
Err ,,yes really ..!
The capacitive load of ESLs does not respond to the Voltage driven rules that most box speakers do. The capacitance at low frequencies is a high impedance and drops with frequency, but the power it needs to make sound pressure remains constant. The speaker has a double peak on account of dual matching transformers, one optimized for bass, the other for highs, driving a single full range panel. So those peaks of impedance do not represent portions of the impedance curve caused by resonance (there's no box to cause it)- so if the amp dials back power into those impedances (for example in the bass) then the power of the amp will be limited as a result and also bass shy.
We been driving Sound Labs for decades and shown with them multiple times at CES and THE Show (where we obtained Best Sound at Show from Dick Olsher). We have lots of Sound Lab customers and over 85% of our MA-2 production going back 30 years has been for use on Sound Labs.
The saving grace of the Sound Lab is there are backplate adjustments to allow the speaker to work with amps with different Voltage response to load. So you can adjust it to sound fairly good with solid state amps, but those amps don't make power easily due to the high impedances. The decreasing impedance at high frequencies is tricky on any ESL/solid state combination since most ESLs (Sound Lab included) vary by about 9:1 or more (Sound Labs about 10:1 to 20:1 depending on the position of the Brilliance control) between the low frequencies and the high frequencies. This means any amp that can double power as impedance is halved is going to be making too much power in the highs. That is why the Brilliance control is provided on the Sound Labs.
Please do not try to gaslight me further...
Well said, @Atmasphere. Ever since Peter Walker released the Quad ESL (in 1957), when its manual categorically stated the loudspeaker was not to be driven with any amplifier other than the Quad II (which provided all of 12 watts!), it's worth understanding how electrostatics differ from moving coil multi-driver box loudspeakers. For example, the humungous Wilson XVX presents a close to 1 ohm impedance throughout the bass region. The large Soundlab's are entirely different, where impedances are 30 ohms or higher, depending on the brilliance setting. An amplifier that works well on the Wilson could be a very low wattage amplifier into 8 ohms (e.g., 50) that doubles every halving of impedance, so you could get 400 watts into 1 ohm (like an older Krell or the newer Accuphase). These will work rather poorly into a Soundlab, if you want to play organ music at realistic levels.
It's exactly the opposite in some ways. In the high treble, ESL impedances can drop very low, 1-2 ohms, again depending on brilliance control in the SL. But, the saving grace is that unlike the bass, there's very very little energy in most recordings above 10 Khz. Even though the impedance of the Quad ESL drops really low, the Quad II had no trouble because there's almost no wattage needed to reproduce most recordings at 15 Khz or higher.
But, the 1 ohm impedance of the Wilson throughout the bass region demands an extremely high current amplifier that is incredibly stable into such low impedances because in most recordings, the bass is where much of the energy lives. Someone noted their McIntosh 3500 kept blowing its fuses into the XVX. I'm not surprised.
It's exactly the opposite in some ways. In the high treble, ESL impedances can drop very low, 1-2 ohms, again depending on brilliance control in the SL. But, the saving grace is that unlike the bass, there's very very little energy in most recordings above 10 Khz. Even though the impedance of the Quad ESL drops really low, the Quad II had no trouble because there's almost no wattage needed to reproduce most recordings at 15 Khz or higher.
But, the 1 ohm impedance of the Wilson throughout the bass region demands an extremely high current amplifier that is incredibly stable into such low impedances because in most recordings, the bass is where much of the energy lives. Someone noted their McIntosh 3500 kept blowing its fuses into the XVX. I'm not surprised.
Irony Noted ,
Yes SS bass shy vs OTL high freq shy when using an OTL , its not from superior bass of said OTL ..!
The end ..
BTW whats the power output of your OTL amp @ 24 ohms vs 2 ohm ..?
Yes SS bass shy vs OTL high freq shy when using an OTL , its not from superior bass of said OTL ..!
The end ..
BTW whats the power output of your OTL amp @ 24 ohms vs 2 ohm ..?
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That depends on the size of the OTL. Sound Labs like a bit of power so a bigger one is needed anyway. In the case of the MA-2, it will make nearly the same power into 24 Ohms as 8,16 or 32 Ohms (its power is slightly decreasing as impedance is raised from 5 Ohms where it makes its highest power output, but only by a few Watts). So it still makes significant power into 2 Ohms, well over 100 Watts.
The MA-1 always struggled on the older Sound Labs. Turned out a lot of other amps, tube or solid state, did too. It was caused by an error in the crossover, which in turn was caused by a simulation error. This was a topic of an email thread between some customers of mine and myself; we discovered the actual impedance curve was different from what Dr. West had sent me earlier. We presented our data to him and he promptly confirmed the measurements we presented on the impedance curve. This resulted in the new backplate, the Toroid 2.
After that the speaker was much easier to drive! At that time the MA-1 worked out to be a good amp for the speakers too in moderate sized room. Those were the amps we used when Dick Olsher gave us Best Sound.
Our smaller amps like the M-60 simply can't do the job and will sound muffled. That can be corrected using a set of ZEROs.
zzzzzIf i could ,
was not feeling that good at the show.
Most notable was rhe huge presence of Sound Lab, very nice. Unfortunately, they appeared to not want to go all out. IMO they should have called Ralph and got an MA-2.
New was the Von Schwieckert VR-30drien driven by the Westminster mono-blocks ad Lampizator. I was treated a little rude, but that is beside the point. If you got the Scilla that is a plug and play system that can easily be integrated in a reasonably sized room.
the Karma driven by CJ mono blocks and Lampizator. My best in show cost no object.
Overall, there was something for everyone, The best bargain remains to be open baffle. The Linkwitz may be the best speaker in audio. Gut thumping bass. I don't know how it goes.
The Clarys speaker is great but was sounding little compressed and PA. Overall, a great speaker.
I pushed it thru two days. Sunday is usually my best day. I could not make it back.
Tomi
was not feeling that good at the show.
Most notable was rhe huge presence of Sound Lab, very nice. Unfortunately, they appeared to not want to go all out. IMO they should have called Ralph and got an MA-2.
New was the Von Schwieckert VR-30drien driven by the Westminster mono-blocks ad Lampizator. I was treated a little rude, but that is beside the point. If you got the Scilla that is a plug and play system that can easily be integrated in a reasonably sized room.
the Karma driven by CJ mono blocks and Lampizator. My best in show cost no object.
Overall, there was something for everyone, The best bargain remains to be open baffle. The Linkwitz may be the best speaker in audio. Gut thumping bass. I don't know how it goes.
The Clarys speaker is great but was sounding little compressed and PA. Overall, a great speaker.
I pushed it thru two days. Sunday is usually my best day. I could not make it back.
Please enjoy my interview with Damon von Schweikert of Von Schweikert Audio about the new VR30 loudspeaker:
I went with a short list of products that I really wanted to listen to, and the lower attendance from previous years meant that I was able to get some good time in the sweet spot with my little bucket list...
Maybe controversial, but:
I'm a big Apogee fan but the Clarisys Audio speakers sounded cold and hard. Lifeless.
I'm a panel speaker fan and while the big Sound Labs have wonderful tonal qualities, I couldn't live with their larger-than-life images. (Bloated).
The new Altec Lansing speakers - what, no horn drivers, really? And their 300b amps looked a lot like the ones on Ali Express, something that was brought to my attention by a number of folks in the Altec Lansing Facebook group.
I've never heard a Von Schweikert speaker sound great at a show. Nothing I've heard has ever made me think that I'd like to own one.
The big G.I.P horns sounded quite meh and the cabinetry looked very D.I.Y, whereas the Semrad Audio horns were $20K+ less expensive and sounded/looked way better.
I didn't expect to like them and I didn't want to like them, particularly, but all of the YG Acoustics speakers I heard sounded very good.
The Quads were a disappointment in the Robyatt room. There was something a bit hard and brittle about the sound that I didn't expect from Quads and something I've never heard from the 57's I've owned, unless I've over-driven them.
MC Audiotech's speakers were very good indeed, nicely balanced top to bottom and musically engaging.
Songer Audio - another world-class showing, they sounded even better than I recall from the previous show, in 2022.
Maco speakers - these open baffles using the Lii F15 drivers were shilled by a couple YouTubers and sounded bang average. They're fine on simple acoustic stuff but hit that driver with anything complex and crank the volume and the whole illusion falls apart.
I've read a lot of show feedback on various forums and realize that I'm in a minority with some of my opinions above, which is just the way I like it.
Looking forward to going again next year if I'm still around.
Maybe controversial, but:
I'm a big Apogee fan but the Clarisys Audio speakers sounded cold and hard. Lifeless.
I'm a panel speaker fan and while the big Sound Labs have wonderful tonal qualities, I couldn't live with their larger-than-life images. (Bloated).
The new Altec Lansing speakers - what, no horn drivers, really? And their 300b amps looked a lot like the ones on Ali Express, something that was brought to my attention by a number of folks in the Altec Lansing Facebook group.
I've never heard a Von Schweikert speaker sound great at a show. Nothing I've heard has ever made me think that I'd like to own one.
The big G.I.P horns sounded quite meh and the cabinetry looked very D.I.Y, whereas the Semrad Audio horns were $20K+ less expensive and sounded/looked way better.
I didn't expect to like them and I didn't want to like them, particularly, but all of the YG Acoustics speakers I heard sounded very good.
The Quads were a disappointment in the Robyatt room. There was something a bit hard and brittle about the sound that I didn't expect from Quads and something I've never heard from the 57's I've owned, unless I've over-driven them.
MC Audiotech's speakers were very good indeed, nicely balanced top to bottom and musically engaging.
Songer Audio - another world-class showing, they sounded even better than I recall from the previous show, in 2022.
Maco speakers - these open baffles using the Lii F15 drivers were shilled by a couple YouTubers and sounded bang average. They're fine on simple acoustic stuff but hit that driver with anything complex and crank the volume and the whole illusion falls apart.
I've read a lot of show feedback on various forums and realize that I'm in a minority with some of my opinions above, which is just the way I like it.
Looking forward to going again next year if I'm still around.
In case you're new to the show, the day to go is Sunday if you want to hear the rooms at their best. The biggest problem exhibitors face at shows is the room and usually they are figuring out how to make things work all through the show, even if they have been in the same room multiple years.
It's my third time at CAF and I was lucky enough to spend the full 3 days. It was very enjoyable, particularly the live music in the hotel bar on Saturday evening.
This sounds quite unpleasant after a while, other rooms recorded by Jay, like OCD Mikes, sound good. In this case I suspect the track used is not a good recording.
Please enjoy my interview with Ken Stevens, Founder of Convergent Audio Technology:
In this interview Ken discusses, among other things:
-- his JL5 HPA and JL7 HPA triode amplifiers
-- his preferences about KT88, KT120 and EL34 tubes
-- step-up transformers in phono stages
-- and the importance of a low noise floor
In this interview Ken discusses, among other things:
-- his JL5 HPA and JL7 HPA triode amplifiers
-- his preferences about KT88, KT120 and EL34 tubes
-- step-up transformers in phono stages
-- and the importance of a low noise floor
Yes, this guy played those Popori speakers with some horrible bass "record" , at very loud levels, made my ears bleed within 10 seconds, I literally had to run out of the room. Every time I attempted to go in they played something truly awful and devoid of any musical value, just to claim that those speakers could do bass. That they could, however after visiting that room 5 times, I still have no idea how those speakers sound at normal to my ears levels (about 85-90 db). THe forte of any electrostats is their 'magical and pure midrange. There was almost none in that room. This has got to be the WORST DEMO AND INTRODUCTION OF THIS TYPE OF SPEAKERS I HAVE EVER HEARD! I was not alone in my assessment either. The presenters whomever those were must be deaf at certain mid range freq, by my estimation . The presenter here claims they have sold 3 pairs, judging by the audience size in lot of rooms at the show, there was no shortage of semi-deaf audiophiles.
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