Gustard just finished the x20....the x30 or whatever probably won't be out for a year or more. I would rather have todays best DAC tweaked out then tomorrows DAC stock. Tweaks: clocks, output stages, power supplies, etc...make more difference than a DAC chip. This has been my experience since day one. All the stock DACs with a single 9018 sound completely different from each other....some sounding very digital and some very, very nice......but none have been really tweaked like I am going to do. A Gustard X20 with mods will simply kill any DAC with the "current" 9018 chip. If a modded Gustard x20 beats your current $10,000 DAC then you can sell it now before the new Chinese DACs show up making your now obsolete DAC worth very little on the used market. A modded x20 could be used for years without it being obsolete as most all the other manufacturers are not tweaky. Anotherwords, I believe a modded x20 will beat a stock x30........and since these things are so cheap....you can have great sound now for a couple of years and then get the latest thing from China with dual 9038s in them and have it modded......for the then latest tweaky thang.....all without spending hardly any money. You could use the modded x20 in another system......if it already sounds better than an Yggy and Vega....just imagine how it will sound modded! No more expensive DACs from now on......this is what I and many others would like to have.
Chinese DAC shames a few heavy hitters
- Thread starter nc42acc
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Give it a shot. But the 9038pro was designed to be insensitive to many of the tweaks you are mentioning. But not sure of the timeline we will see a new Gustard unit. The Chinese are usually very fast coming out with new products, and the 9038pro was designed as a drop in replacement.
I haven't verified this, but I think it can just be dropped in as a replacement with 0 other mods and it will work. If this is the case, maybe you can also do chip swap mods on DAC's
No, the 9038pro is not a drop in replacement for the 9018......the less expensive not as good 9028 is, so new circuit boards, etc. will have to be done for the top of the line 9038.....see here: http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en...mance-bar-unprecedented-140-db-dynamic-range/
Insensitive to tweaks......no way, Jose. Everything matters.
Insensitive to tweaks......no way, Jose. Everything matters.
Yes you're right. But the 9028pro would still be a big upgrade. However the controller FPGA would need reprogrammed as well.
So I grabbed one of these to see what the fuss is about. It is quite good, warm sounding and with decent resolution and extension, but is some way behind the resolution, transparency and engagement of the Manhattan, let alone the Nadac, in my system. As it should be given the price differential. Build quality was just ok, in my book. Not the worst I have seen for sure but Chinese built, not Swiss or German built.
Overall, for the money, it is great value, and is easily recommended.
Overall, for the money, it is great value, and is easily recommended.
Well you can't expect a $799 DAC to be on par with the $11500 NADAC. As far as the transparency compared with the Manhattan, further evaluation using HQplayer resampling to DSD should be evaluated. The IC opamp's the Manhattan uses could easily wow in the resolution department with short term comparison, but good discrete circuits will be more natural. It will also take different filter settings in HQplayer to dial each DAC in to the best sound. What's best for one DAC, won't be for the other.
Gee - no kidding Mike. GBO.
Have you actually ever heard a Manhattan Mike? or owned one? or the Custard dac? or is it speculation as usual?
I'm quite familiar with the Sabre chip, as well as different output stage circuit topology's. Once one understands that putting your hand on a hot burner will burn you, he doesn't need to do it everyday to realize this.
Right. So that would be a no.
Okies I'm out of your corner, enough crazy for one day.
Please cut it out!!! He does not have to hear anything!!! He knows all and tells all!!! All we must do is listen, be thankful and absorb the wisdom...
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Thanks, Andrew, for this reality/sanity check. There is so much hype, but usually miracles don't just simply happen in audio. Some people also have claimed that the NAD M51 DAC ($ 2K) is just as good as my Berkeley DAC ($ 5K), blah, blah, blah. I wish it were so, then I could have saved $ 3K, but I had them both in my system and the Berkeley beats the NAD by not a subtle margin. Even my 20-year old Wadia 12 DAC got more life and drama out of the music, while the NAD was better than the Wadia in other areas, especially bass. The Berkeley presents the music with the same life and drama as my old Wadia, but then has so much more resolution and refinement, and handily beats the NAD in those areas as well. It also has much better bass, and it betters the bass of the NAD too -- it's just much blacker and impactful. Sure, the NAD is a good DAC for the price, but it's no giant killer either.
Let's be real folks, with all the hype.
And unlike Mike, and like you, I actually have heard the stuff that I am talking about. As described above, for example.
Nice reality check that Andrew confirms that a $799 DAC doesn't sound better than a $4995 and $11500 DAC? Wow big revelation!
Besides I doubt he actually even bought it. Anyways, Marty started this thread, a guy who actually owns it and has compared it to other DAC's.
Actually I think it was Marty that said he wished that someone would compare it to the SOTA dacs out there. So there you go. I have.
What? you want photos? My God. You are hilarious. There we are princess ...
@ Al M. - I agree the Nad M51 is pretty average. I tend to think most dacs under 5 or 6 k are much of a muchness. But then again, I only talk about what I have owned or actually heard. Fancy that. That's a novel concept to Blizz I know...really he should try it sometime.
So Mike - when are you releasing your Ravenna dac? Got a timeline for us?
The build quality looks pretty good to me for a $799 DAC. Anyways even if it doesn't outperform DAC's costing 7-15X the price, I think it's a solid value to use in a complete system under 10K.
Is that an apology I hear from you Mike? No? Perhaps just a little one? For doubting my honesty. Go on - it won't hurt. Might even make you feel a little better.
Well, I wouldn't buy it for a 10k system. Actually I just wouldn't buy it again or recommend it. It isn't good enough. I'd have a Benchmark Dac 2 over it any day of the week. But then again, I have actually owned that as well. Or a Mytek 192 DSD. Which I prefer. I'm not dismissing Marty's choice - hey its a good dac - but let's keep it in context. It's different rather than better. Which in dac land is common.
Ok, here is a question for you Mike - what is the best system you have heard? what for you is the reference by which you define the performance of other systems? You can even go by category if you like - Horns, Multidriver, Single Driver, Tube, Solid State, Vinyl, Tape, Digital. Happy to accept your actual experience of established brands in any of those categories. Or is it all DIY?
Yes the external looks fairly decent, Tiffany-less jacks though. I like hex screws and top cover, if solid billet.
But! What about the internals?
ps I forgot to add - my experience of most Chinese made gear is it looks good but when you start using it it doesn't feel as good. So for instance the button on the right of the unit feels loose to the touch and imprecise. It has a play in it that you would never find on eg a Benchmark or a Mytek. The selection is sloppy and the software very basic in action. But its a $799 dac.
My go to cheap and cheerful dac at the moment is the the Chord Mojo. Now that is a good dac, and not just for $599. You can even dsp everything to DSD 512 if you want.
My go to cheap and cheerful dac at the moment is the the Chord Mojo. Now that is a good dac, and not just for $599. You can even dsp everything to DSD 512 if you want.
Do you reckon Mike should apologise to me Bob? Or is ok for him to question my integrity in your books?
Since you are on a mission around here to try to debunk my advice, I would take your opinion with a grain of salt. There's ton's of other opinion's of the DAC out there, as well as a few people on the forum who has recently purchased it.
I've heard many many system's in my day, but as far as my reference at the moment, it's right in my living room. There's lots of great systems out there, but as far as price vs performance, I'm always left very disappointed when I audition gear in dealer showrooms. I'm more interested in different technologies, than brand names. When I evaluate gear, I evaluate it for specific attributes of the technology it uses.
That is what I thought.
Go one. Name one. Just one system that you listened to that is a high end system that you reckon your DIY efforts better
And how exactly do you do that? you can hear attributes of a technology? Wow you are gifted...
Still waiting on that apology Mike....
