Class D Mono Blocks vs Class A/B

[morricab]

as with all amps: It is not! the technology in use, which makes a difference, it is the quality of implementation.

Everybody is a ware, that tube amps can sound different.
Even in the top end, you can discuss hours about the difference of Kagura and Engstroem monos.
The difference between the two starts, that they have different preamplifier requirements, So the best for Kagura might not be the best for Engstroem.

Same Same for Class a and Class A/B comparisons.

I joined many amplifier shoot outs. Mostly the amplifier won, where the best pairing with the Preamplifer was given.

If you want to understand Class D, you have to see the differences first. Hypex, ICE, and so on do sell modules.
But due to different implementation, they can sound very different.
(please compare to a KRON 300B tube. it is always the same tube, but in different amps, the result, the sound can be very different)

Personally I do not like Devialet too much. They have a sounding to be warm and cosy, but still have no resolution at all....
a Tube amp like NAT is more neutral and has higher resolution...

My last experience with classD was, as I visited a dealer to listen to Goldmund Telos 2500 monos. I was not really satisfied, so I asked, if the dealer can switch on a Jeff Rowland Amp for comparison purpose. At that time I was not really familiar with the current JRDG line up. The stereo amp was great, for my ears much better than the Goldmund. So I did a spontaneous buy.
At home I found out, that I bought a JRDG M825 class D! amp.

And this amp makes me happy until today (being paired with a matching PreAmp from JRDG)

My music gear is switched on every day like 14 hours. Means I do enjoy the low power consumption of the class D amp as well

So if someone is interested in class D: Give it a fair chance, Do not look for the cheapest solution to get the newest module from Hypex or ICE, try to find the best implementation instead, even, if it is an older class D module. And pair it with the best matching preamp!

Hi Shakti,
I see you have a Lectron JG50...I have seen this amp around Europe for many years and wondered about its sound as it was designed by Jean Hiraga. I guess it is not your main system amp (seems like the JRDG stuff is) but maybe you have it on the JBLs?

FWIW, the earlier models from JRDG with Class D were not very good sounding but I have not heard the latest attempts. I agree with you regarding the Devialet sound...drives me a bit nuts actually (a friend has a couple of them and I never leave a listening session at his place satisfied).

 

[shakti]

Hi Shakti,
I see you have a Lectron JG50...I have seen this amp around Europe for many years and wondered about its sound as it was designed by Jean Hiraga. I guess it is not your main system amp (seems like the JRDG stuff is) but maybe you have it on the JBLs?

FWIW, the earlier models from JRDG with Class D were not very good sounding but I have not heard the latest attempts. I agree with you regarding the Devialet sound...drives me a bit nuts actually (a friend has a couple of them and I never leave a listening session at his place satisfied).

I am a big fan of the early tube and horn sounds in France. Hiraga was a real genius In voicing the Lectron JH 50. I bought my first JH 50 around 30 years ago and the amp is still one of my reference amp for EL34 implementation. Currently I am using Horns FP 12 speakers and a Audiolabor "Klar" preamp (Audiolabor is the first company founded by Brinkmann) from the same production year as the JH50 .

Unfortunately the most JH 50 did get modified over the years, so they lost their original soul...

Regarding JRDG. I owned 201 and 501 mono Amps and they were not as good as the previous amps from JRDG. But they were a lot cheaper as well, so the performance might have matched the price point. I have sold them relatively fast.

The M825 and M925 are much better and much more expensive too. So they might match the (different) price point as well and cannot be compared to 201 and 501 because of the different market segment.

Personally I like my M825 in combination with the JRDG PreAmp.

 

[bonzo75]

Hiraga's amps which were done by other people (not Hiraga) used on various altecs and one celestion axiperiodic system I heard were quite poor.

 

[analyzer]

Currently its not too bad with the organic bel canto pre 3 vbs and an arcam a85 used as a power amp , strangely the arcam despite its lowly cost has been

Curiously I'm running with a similar set Belcanto pre3 (I agree with the Word "organic" as you wrote) and Ref300 monos. Both on loan from a friend who don't use them in winter and spring... (he has an ARC combination running very hot...).
I agree that they are not bad at all, sometimes better and sometimes worse than my actual amp-preamp. I forgot to mention that it's critical to leave them always "on" as for all d-class amps I tried.

 

[gds7368]

I am so grateful to all the responses from experienced members. Your feedback is of great help. I am going to try out couple of the ClassD amps.
I love my tube mono blocks but want to have a set of SS mono block to switch with between them. I was never found of Bryston found them very metallic but I was told the Cubed version has sonic improvement. Good thing about Bryston is they hold value unlike the newer Class D amps.

Vizcal, I think that's a great idea. Please report back what you find!

BTW I owned Bryston 4B SST (before the squared version) for my 2 channel system for a couple years, paired with PMC MB2i speakers, and was never too fond of that system. Hard to distinguish what made that system not work - just not very musical - as I got rid of both the Bryston amplifier and the speakers at the same time. I still have a Bryston amp powering the center and surround channels in my theater. Good resale value plus an amazing warranty policy, but I still think you should demo some class D amps.

 

[Hear Here]

Second, it is a brilliantly transparent device and, imho, those who are disappointed because it fails "to hold my attention" are looking for something other than that.

We seem to differ on the Benchmark. I bought it soon after release and before there were any worthwhile reviews, although a fellow Avantgarde owner was raving over his AHB2 purchase.

Yes, it is accurate and transparent, yes it is dead quiet (this I concluded was the reason my AG chum raved about it), yes it is nicely built with great features such as gain switch, but no, it isn't a good listen. It is desperately DULL and LIFELESS - the sort of amplifier you just want to turn the volume down to "elevator music" level. I was never inclined to turn up the volume to wallow in wonderful loud lifelike music - it just doesn't work.

The Benchmark was the first of many SS amps I bought or borrowed to replace my 845-based mono SETs. I had Class A amps from Sugden and Accuphase, ABs from Quad, Sanders, Micromega, GamuT and others, and Class D from Benchmark, Red Wine (a while back), Diavelet and NAD. My earlier tube amps were from Art Audio, Graaf, Audio Note and Consonance.

The OP is based in Canada I believe. He should seriously audition the best from NAD (also based in Canada), although he's best to look at their Master Series integrated rather than the power amp. The M32 was, after a couple of years experimenting , my amplifier of choice - and far less costly than many of the others. Excellent reviews and awards, for what they are worth. The new Master Series M33 will very shortly appear based on a different D module (from Purifi) that I'm told is even better than the DirectDigital module used in the M32 - and the M33 includes Anthem room correction for what that's worth. Peter

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I like the NAD Master Series amps, too, but I think we've discussed this before and we seem to have differences in our preferences represented by this issue and by our other choices, e.g., loudspeakers. So, I ain't arguing with your assessment, just choosing not to relate to it.

Also, and for the 3rd or 4th time on the forum: The Benchmark is NOT a Class D amp.

 

[audio.bill]

The OP is based in Canada I believe. He should seriously audition the best from NAD (also based in Canada), although he's best to look at their Master Series integrated rather than the power amp. The M32 was, after a couple of years experimenting , my amplifier of choice - and far less costly than many of the others. Excellent reviews and awards, for what they are worth. The new Master Series M33 will very shortly appear based on a different D module (from Purifi) that I'm told is even better than the DirectDigital module used in the M32 - and the M33 includes Anthem room correction for what that's worth. Peter

With all due respect I believe you are mistaken regarding the NAD Master Series M33 using Anthem room correction, it would likely be Dirac Live.

 

[Hear Here]

With all due respect I believe you are mistaken regarding the NAD Master Series M33 using Anthem room correction, it would likely be Dirac Live.

Yes of course your right, Dirac is the system used by NAD. I view all these room correction systems with a little scepticism as I've tried most in my system (MARS with Micromega, Anthem with Martin Logan and RoomPerfect with Lyngdorf) but not Dirac yet. In all honesty improvements have been very small in my experience and I think a little of the lifelike nature of the unadjusted sound is usually lost. I'll have to persevere more if I get the M33, although I believe the version of Dirac included is a cut down version, but the full version can be downloaded for a fee (though I'm unsure of this or how it may work). The point of my post was to encourage the OP to look carefully at the latest digital technology that some of the best manufacturers are now using in their amps.

 

[vizcal]

I have listened to the Nad M32 its a dac Amplifier, for that I would take the Linn any day. Linn Selket DSM is their newer one it is in-between the entry level Majak and mid level Akurate. I have the Akurate DSM , their Katalyst dac architecture is phenomenal , I am getting their Higher end Klimax DSM, as they stopped making the DS. I used it only as my streamer /dac, I don't use their built ion prefer my Tube preamp. Linn Klimax DSM built in preamp tonal character is pretty good. I have tried room correction from other brands . I like Linn's space optimization built in software that creates space modelling of your speakers and unique room dimension and characteristics.


After reading members posts I will try out the Bench mark AHB2 mono block they are offering 30 day return policy.

 

[Hear Here]

T

I have listened to the Nad M32 its a dac Amplifier, for that I would take the Linn any day. Linn Selket DSM is their newer one it is in-between the entry level Majak and mid level Akurate. I have the Akurate DSM , their Katalyst dac architecture is phenomenal , I am getting their Higher end Klimax DSM, as they stopped making the DS. I used it only as my streamer /dac, I don't use their built ion prefer my Tube preamp. Linn Klimax DSM built in preamp tonal character is pretty good. I have tried room correction from other brands . I like Linn's space optimization built in software that creates space modelling of your speakers and unique room dimension and characteristics.


After reading members posts I will try out the Bench mark AHB2 mono block they are offering 30 day return policy.

I'll certainly look at the Linn Selket and perhaps arrange a home trial. It's quite a bit more than the £4000 M33 at £6750 (with amp and higher spec DAC modules) and this then invites comparison with the Cambridge Edge NQ + W 2-box rival at £6000. The Linn lacks, pre out, sub out, Bluetooth, MQA, colour LED screen and AES/EBU input, but it does offer "space optimisation" that sounds interesting.

Reading Linn reviews, I'm pleased to see that this unit is somewhat different from the traditional Linn equipment that tends to entice and trap buyers into an all-Linn setup. I borrowed a Majik DSM unit some years ago (and a comparable Naim box) and rejected them for their quirky house characteristics - and Linn for plucking model names from the Ikea catalogue! Also I disliked both their control apps and obstinately stuck with my old Sonos until I found a streamer with as good a control app as the Sonos. BluOS for the NAD at last met this requirement, although I guess Linn and Naim ones are better now.

I'll be interested to hear your views on the AHB2 amp. I'm sure it's great in some systems.

 

[hifinutt]

Curiously I'm running with a similar set Belcanto pre3 (I agree with the Word "organic" as you wrote) and Ref300 monos. Both on loan from a friend who don't use them in winter and spring... (he has an ARC combination running very hot...).
I agree that they are not bad at all, sometimes better and sometimes worse than my actual amp-preamp. I forgot to mention that it's critical to leave them always "on" as for all d-class amps I tried.

ah thats great , i have had so many pre amps i have lost count . i had the modwright 36.5 dm [2 box ] pre but got fed up with 2 big boxes . having had a pre 3 which was easily bettered by a simple music first pre , when i tried the vbs version of the pre 3 it was a massive improvement . i have used the pre 3 vbs for quite some time now and leave it on , its precise , reliable , organic, has a great soundstage and for the money its a bargain. In fact i now use 2 of them and leave them on as you say 24/7 . i wish they had not stopped making them . bel canto`s latest pre costs a stupid amount of money and their black ones languish in various second hand shops at enough money to buy a very high class mercedes !!!

 

[hifinutt]

good to see some positive thoughts on the benchmark and look forward to vizcal`s thoughts when you get yours

oh and just to cheer Kal up i repeat his words !

Also, and for the 3rd or 4th time on the forum: The Benchmark is NOT a Class D amp.

 

[tkoslek]

I had the pleasure of being able to compare Merrill Veritas monoblocks, Parasound JC1s and a Pass 150.8. At first, the JC1's and 150.8 sounded much more engaging and musical, but as the Veritas settled in (probably 2-3 days of time) they started to sound much better and the differences became much more subtle. IMO, the Veritas were top notch in speed and utter background silence, but ultimately I enjoyed the portrayal the JC1's and 150.8 provided in terms of the upper registers - it seemed a little more palpable.

Like all quality gear, everything in front of the amps impacted what I was hearing (cables, source, signal, etc.) As others have said, excellence in quality and implementation > a specific class of amp.

 

[rblnr]

I've heard some good values in Class D amplification, but at the higher end (as roughly defined by this forum) always find them to be less engaging than really good SS (particularly Class A or heavily A biased) and tube amps. It's a gut level thing. My experience spans back the to Nuforce IA-7 integrated and the Bel Cantos which I reviewed years ago, up to the current Mola Molas. For HT though, I think a multichannel Class D amp or receivers makes a ton of sense where absolute transparency and resolution are far more important than anything else.

That all said, I'm curious about the new NAD M33 integrated and M28 multichannel Purifi based amps -- the tech keeps getting better, and the people behind it were responsible for the Hypex amp module among other innovations. Could be next gen Class D SQ-wise.

Re the Benchmark, heard it at a show w/their DAC and Studio Electric speakers (which I believe they have since dropped) and thougth it was one of the best rooms, and a spectacular value. Been meaning to get one in to evaluate for years now.

 

[olivier]

I agree that you have to take the implementation into account. Especially the power circuit is really important.
So i do have small class d monos with hypex modules and they sound clean and good.
And i use a crown xti 4002 with my ripol sub
i tested the crown with the TAD CR1 and it was very powerful but slow and the resolution not as good as the other amps
But my TAD 2500 II is a whole other story. Speed, dynamics, mid-bass and flair is outstanding.

So there are 3 class d amps and they are totally different

For a while i had both MC 452 and the TADs at the same time. The Mac is really good, but the TAD excels in every aspect. But i would say that the MC 452 is better than the Hypex modules.
But this is also a matter of taste