Comparing Reissued LPs to Analogue Productions Tapes

bonzo75

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A friend performed for me the exact same comparison you are describing here and, in this particular case, we both preferred the 45 rpm LP.

As I texted Kedar today:

“I have been very clear that not all tapes sound better than all vinyl. You really have to go tape copy by tape copy versus vinyl original versus 45rpm vinyl reissue.”

“This is why for some of my favorite titles I have gotten three or four or even five different tapes from different sources.”

“All I’ve ever said is that WHEN (if and only if) all the underlying variables line up in favor of the tape (great performance, great recording, proper EQ, low generation copy from a master tape in good condition, repro machine heads properly aligned, etc.) the tape beats the vinyl and is almost unbelievably good.”

What was his analog playback system? Amps and speakers?
 

Fred

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This thread has been an interesting read. My 2 track deck is a Tascam BR-20 in stock form. I've been looking at the Analog Productions tapes, but keep coming back to the conclusion that I wouldn't be getting the most out of them without some mods to the deck, or at the least, buying an outboard preamp like the deHavilland 222. (The Doshi kit is just way out of my league)

FWIW, I have a small collection of studio produced 7.5ips tapes from the 60's and 70's. In only a few of the cases in which I also have an original LP pressing of the same title, I generally find the tape to sound superior to the vinyl version of the same vintage.
 

bonzo75

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This thread has been an interesting read. My 2 track deck is a Tascam BR-20 in stock form. I've been looking at the Analog Productions tapes, but keep coming back to the conclusion that I wouldn't be getting the most out of them without some mods to the deck, or at the least, buying an outboard preamp like the deHavilland 222. (The Doshi kit is just way out of my league)

FWIW, I have a small collection of studio produced 7.5ips tapes from the 60's and 70's. In only a few of the cases in which I also have an original LP pressing of the same title, I generally find the tape to sound superior to the vinyl version of the same vintage.

Depends what vinyl issues you are using for the same classical piece
 

panreels

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This thread has been an interesting read. My 2 track deck is a Tascam BR-20 in stock form. I've been looking at the Analog Productions tapes, but keep coming back to the conclusion that I wouldn't be getting the most out of them without some mods to the deck, or at the least, buying an outboard preamp like the deHavilland 222. (The Doshi kit is just way out of my league)

FWIW, I have a small collection of studio produced 7.5ips tapes from the 60's and 70's. In only a few of the cases in which I also have an original LP pressing of the same title, I generally find the tape to sound superior to the vinyl version of the same vintage.


If your Tascam BR-20 is properly aligned it is very capable of playing The Tape Project, analog production and other 15 IPS master tapes, I have a few of The Tape Project tapes, and my BR-20 is stock, and I can here the great Sonics of these tapes, I don’t think you will gain much by using outboard preamps in fact I don’t know or have heard of anyone modifying a BR-20 for external preamps ( other than UHA), and if someone on this forum has done this to a BR-20 please let us know how it worked out.
Pete
 
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Fred

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If your Tascam BR-20 is properly aligned it is very capable of playing The Tape Project, analog production and other 15 IPS master tapes, I have a few of The Tape Project tapes, and my BR-20 is stock, and I can here the great Sonics of these tapes, I don’t think you will gain much by using outboard preamps in fact I don’t know or have heard of anyone modifying a BR-20 for external preamps ( other than UHA), and if someone on this forum has done this to a BR-20 please let us know how it worked out.
Pete

Interesting reply Pete. My Tascam performs flawlessly.

I have a friend who is using the deHavilland 222 with his Otari MX5050 BII. He just bought a BR-20 to replace his Studer that was summarily destroyed by UPS on the return trip from having it calibrated. He hasn't told me his plans for the Tascam, but I know he's mounting it in his old Studer rack and if I had to guess he's probably looking into having the preamp routed to the 222.

Nonetheless, to get back on track... I'm open to suggestions on which 1 title in the Analogue Productions catalog would be the best for showcasing their master tapes sonics. Orchestral would be preferable to the jazz titles for my tastes.
 

astrotoy

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Interesting reply Pete. My Tascam performs flawlessly.

I have a friend who is using the deHavilland 222 with his Otari MX5050 BII. He just bought a BR-20 to replace his Studer that was summarily destroyed by UPS on the return trip from having it calibrated. He hasn't told me his plans for the Tascam, but I know he's mounting it in his old Studer rack and if I had to guess he's probably looking into having the preamp routed to the 222.

Nonetheless, to get back on track... I'm open to suggestions on which 1 title in the Analogue Productions catalog would be the best for showcasing their master tapes sonics. Orchestral would be preferable to the jazz titles for my tastes.

The Arnold Overtures is a great tape. (I'm a charter subscriber and have all the TP tapes).
Larry
 

panreels

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Nonetheless, to get back on track... I'm open to suggestions on which 1 title in the Analogue Productions catalog would be the best for showcasing their master tapes sonics. Orchestral would be preferable to the jazz titles for my tastes.


I don’t have any Analog Production tapes, But there is a tape you may like to show off your master tapes, I would get " Arnolds Overture" that is available from The Tape Project, I have heard both the CD and vinyl of this album and the tape blows the socks off both of them, this tape always comes out number one for Sonics and sound quality highly recommended, and I’m sure there are a lot of people on this forum that would agree.

Maybe Larry on this forum could recommend a tape from Analog Production I think he has a lot of there classical titles
 

hvbias

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Bonzo is right.... there are just too many variables in this tape thing. There are no Studer tape machines that sound like mine. Just as most (all?) tape machines in the big studios are custom modified. I like to dub through my Doshi, though I have done machine-machine. That's one variable there. Even tape formulations vary, though Mulan is getting more consistant now. What I have also run across is that a lot of master (safety/production) tape does not have tones, so I have to que up to a loud passage and set my levels from there. You also have different brand heads... (not going there), and most of the tapes that are done today have to work on a wide range of equipment. I know Ed likes to run high levels, as do I. I know stampers can wear and the first press is much better than number 999. Same with tape machines.....

Bruce I find your last sentence particularly important. It drove me mad to hear two of the same LP edition (ie original pressing, label and exact matrix in run out groove) only to have one sound much different and better from another. Both of these records in extremely clean condition.

I've heard people I trust post on another music forum (heavily vinyl oriented) say the same thing about the same exact reissue, and these are pressed in much smaller numbers.
 

astrotoy

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I don’t have any Analog Production tapes, But there is a tape you may like to show off your master tapes, I would get " Arnolds Overture" that is available from The Tape Project, I have heard both the CD and vinyl of this album and the tape blows the socks off both of them, this tape always comes out number one for Sonics and sound quality highly recommended, and I’m sure there are a lot of people on this forum that would agree.

Maybe Larry on this forum could recommend a tape from Analog Production I think he has a lot of there classical titles

Thanks. I have all of the first dozen of the AP tape releases, which include 8 classical albums. I like all of them - the eight were all albums chosen by Harry Pearson in his Absolute Sound Super Disc list of vinyl records. If I were to select one orchestral album, I would choose "The Power of the Orchestra" which was one of the great RCA albums engineered by Decca's Kenneth Wilkinson. Rene Leibowitz conducts the Royal Philharmonic in two of Mussorgsky's most famous and spectacular pieces. The first is "The Night on Bald Mountain" which Leibowitz reorchestrates himself into an even more spectacular piece than the well known orchestration by Rimsky-Korsakoff. The second is "Pictures at an Exhibition" which was orchestrated by Maurice Ravel. Both have spectacular sonics and are wonderful pieces.

If you like chamber music, there is only one album - the Wilson recording of Beethoven and Enescu Violin Sonatas with David Abel and Julie Steinberg. That is also superb.

Larry
 
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Ron Resnick

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. . . "The Power of the Orchestra" which was one of the great RCA albums engineered by Decca's Kenneth Wilkinson. Rene Leibowitz conducts the Royal Philharmonic in two of Mussorgsky's most famous and spectacular pieces. The first is "The Night on Bald Mountain" which Leibowitz reorchestrates himself into an even more spectacular piece than the well known orchestration by Rimsky-Korsakoff. The second is "Pictures at an Exhibition" which was orchestrated by Maurice Ravel. Both have spectacular sonics and are wonderful pieces.

. . .

This is exactly the recording I have been using routinely for the last couple of years as my standard classical music “test” piece. Everybody knows the music, but my hosts usually are quite startled at how good my Chesky re-issue of this recording sounds.

I am a total novice at comparing different recordings and different performances, but I think the sonics of this Chesky reissue are fantastic, and the performance sounds darn good to me as well!

I got Chad’s tape of this title, and I will be very super-duper, ultra-fascinated to compare Chad’s tape to the Chesky LP.
 
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astrotoy

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This is exactly the recording I have been using routinely for the last couple of years as my standard classical music “test” piece. Everybody knows the music, but my hosts usually are quite startled at how good my Chesky re-issue of this recording sounds.

I am a total novice at comparing different recordings and different performances, but I think the sonics of this Chesky reissue are fantastic, and the performance sounds darn good to me as well!

I got Chad’s tape of this title, and I will be very super-duper, ultra-fascinated to compare Chad’s tape to the Chesky LP.

Ron, somehow Chesky got the rights to reissue a bunch of the top RCA and Readers Digest (from RCA although engineered by Decca) recordings, well before Classics Records reissued many of the same titles in the early '90's. The titles are great (including many of the AP Tape issues). They also released some of them on CD's for those who do not do analogue.

Here are all (maybe most) of the Chesky RCA Living Stereo vinyl releases:
Power of the Orchestra Leibowitz*
Offenbach Gaite Parisienne Fiedler
Ravel Daphnis et Chloe Munch*
Prokofiev Lt. Kije/Stravinsky Reiner*
Spain Reiner
Reiner Sound
Rimsky-Korsakoff Scheherazade Reiner*
Gershwin American in Paris/Rhapsody in Blue Wild/Fiedler
Respighi Pines/Fountains of Rome Reiner*
Beethoven Symphony 6 Reiner

* AP Tape Releases (Daphnis et Chloe scheduled for 2019)

There are a bunch more Readers Digest releases which are also mostly great. I've Bolded some of my favorites.

CR1 Berlioz Sym FantFreccia
CR3 Sibelius Sym 2Barbirolli
CR6 Brahms Sym4Reiner RPO

CR7 Bizet Sym1/Tchaik FrancescaMunch
CR13 Dohnanyi Nursery/Liszt PC1WIld
CR41 Rachmaninoff PC4/RhapsodyWild
CR42 Stravinsky PetrouchkaDanon

CR53 Elgar/Mendelssohn/Mussorgsky/Sullivan/LisztBoult
CR94 Tchaikovsky Swan Lake/NutcrackerBoult

Larry
 
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hvbias

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One of my favorite past time is comparing 2 track prerecorded (7.5”- 15”) reel to reel tapes to vinyl LPs and I have found 90 percent of the time the tape sounds better than the LP be it original or reissue, but this brings to mind the one exception of a reissued 45 rpm LP record I have, and when I seen that The Tape Project had a copy of this album, I had to get one, but this turned out to be a real disappointment because the 45 LP sounded much better than the tape in fact I did a blind A/B test with some friends and they all agreed the LP sounded better than the tape, the tape sounded thin and tinny also the LP had a back ground noise that was also hared on The Tape Project tape, so maybe the original master tape may not of been so great, now I’m sure the LP did have some EQ done to it, also I have a few old late 1950’s 7.5” prerecorded 2 track tapes where the reissue LP sounded better, but most don’t.

Do you mind saying which Tape Project album this is? Thanks.
 

panreels

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hvbias
Creedence Clearwater," Willy and the Poorboys," I’m not saying this is a bad tape it is very clear and detailed just very thin, and the 45 RPM vinyl sounded much fuller and had more depth

Pete
 

Fred

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This is exactly the recording I have been using routinely for the last couple of years as my standard classical music “test” piece. Everybody knows the music, but my hosts usually are quite startled at how good my Chesky re-issue of this recording sounds.

I am a total novice at comparing different recordings and different performances, but I think the sonics of this Chesky reissue are fantastic, and the performance sounds darn good to me as well!

I got Chad’s tape of this title, and I will be very super-duper, ultra-fascinated to compare Chad’s tape to the Chesky LP.


I'd be very interested to read your thoughts after you had a chance to make the comparison.
 
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c1ferrari

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hvbias
Creedence Clearwater," Willy and the Poorboys," I’m not saying this is a bad tape it is very clear and detailed just very thin, and the 45 RPM vinyl sounded much fuller and had more depth

Pete


Possibly, remastered?
 

Bruce B

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hvbias
Creedence Clearwater," Willy and the Poorboys," I’m not saying this is a bad tape it is very clear and detailed just very thin, and the 45 RPM vinyl sounded much fuller and had more depth

Pete

The "Chronicle" tapes sound awesome.....
 

astrotoy

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hvbias
Creedence Clearwater," Willy and the Poorboys," I’m not saying this is a bad tape it is very clear and detailed just very thin, and the 45 RPM vinyl sounded much fuller and had more depth

Pete

After your post, I had to go back to compare the TP tape vs. my DSD version. I can see the point about the non TP version being fuller. My take is that the DSD version (don't have the 45) is not as clear - muddier than the tape. There is a depth to the sound of the tape, layers of sound that I don't hear in the DSD version. Maybe the 45 is better. But for me, clearly the tape is the winner.

Larry
 

panreels

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After your post, I had to go back to compare the TP tape vs. my DSD version. I can see the point about the non TP version being fuller. My take is that the DSD version (don't have the 45) is not as clear - muddier than the tape. There is a depth to the sound of the tape, layers of sound that I don't hear in the DSD version. Maybe the 45 is better. But for me, clearly the tape is the winner.

Larry


I’m beginning to wander if I got a bad tape, but to late now to check again, I sold the tape, but I did make a copy of the tape on SM900 tape at 15 IPS EQ IEC and got the hole Tape Project tape on one reel, I guess they could of sold the tape on one reel, but that only would saved the cost of a reel.
Pete
 

hvbias

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hvbias
Creedence Clearwater," Willy and the Poorboys," I’m not saying this is a bad tape it is very clear and detailed just very thin, and the 45 RPM vinyl sounded much fuller and had more depth

Pete

I think it is worth mentioning as far as I know there is no complete album of Willy and the Poor Boys in 45 rpm, the version that exists is a "greatest hits" compilation.

I assume you are talking about the reissue from Analogue Productions.
 

panreels

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I think it is worth mentioning as far as I know there is no complete album of Willy and the Poor Boys in 45 rpm, the version that exists is a "greatest hits" compilation.

I assume you are talking about the reissue from Analogue Productions.


The CC&R albums I have including Willy and the Poorboys was released by AcousTech and is no longer in production it is true there are a few songs missing on this album AcousTech released most of the CC&R albums in 45RPM, it is not an Analog Production.
 

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