Comparison to Siltech Double/Triple Crown Level

Uwiik

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Mar 2, 2021
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Hi Dave /Zenwave, Uwiik here n audiophile from Jakarta. Your cable has recently caught my attention due to your comparison with Siltech. Due to upcoming system change I might need to change some cables due to incompatibility and getting Siltech again on Crown/Double/Triple Crown level will get very expensive. Just wondering how your cable compare? I used to switch cable all the time and finally settled on Siltech and I think it’s the best there is for me, for me Siltech is agnostic, I can just bring my IC to my friend’s totally different system then plug in my Siltech TC IC and the result would be exactly the same in any system, a much more neutral, transparent yet very musical sound. I have tried/own a relatively wide range of Siltech‘s range from the Signature to Triple Crown PC, IC, SC and to me they all sound the same (really open, dynamic and transparent without any hint of harshness), it’s just getting more natural and clear as the range progresses to the higher end of the range. I can see that the basic philosophy between yours and Siltech’s is similar, I am really wondering if one would compare Zenwave highest echelon to Siltech’s Crown-Double-Triple Crown?

By the way, the new system will be:
- Pilium Elektra DAC (recessed RCA receptacle so existing Siltech Triple Crown humongous RCA can’t fit in)
- HSE Phono stage ( XLR only on HSE Phono but need to go to Kondo G70 Pre with RCA only, so have to get XLR to RCA IC therefore existing Siltech Triple Crown IC also cannot be used)
- Wolf Von Langa Berlin speaker (my speaker cable is only King level, would like to upgrade to Triple Crown level)
- Kondo Ongaku and G70 amp/pre

Many thanks and have a good weekend.
 

ashandger

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Jun 14, 2013
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Hello Uwilk, is it possible for you to share your sonic impressions of the HSE phono stage? Many thanks
 
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Uwiik

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Hello Uwilk, is it possible for you to share your sonic impressions of the HSE phono stage? Many thanks
I am not there yet as I am still setting up baseline of the system, I would say 1-2 weeks before I setup the TT for the HSE
 
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TDX

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Congratulations for your purchase of Elektra. Have you talked to Konstantinos whether he has any idea may be you can use the siltech.
 
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Uwiik

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Congratulations for your purchase of Elektra. Have you talked to Konstantinos whether he has any idea may be you can use the siltech.
This is the best suggestion! Thanks a lot!
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi Dave /Zenwave, Uwiik here n audiophile from Jakarta. Your cable has recently caught my attention due to your comparison with Siltech. Due to upcoming system change I might need to change some cables due to incompatibility and getting Siltech again on Crown/Double/Triple Crown level will get very expensive. Just wondering how your cable compare? I used to switch cable all the time and finally settled on Siltech and I think it’s the best there is for me, for me Siltech is agnostic, I can just bring my IC to my friend’s totally different system then plug in my Siltech TC IC and the result would be exactly the same in any system, a much more neutral, transparent yet very musical sound. I have tried/own a relatively wide range of Siltech‘s range from the Signature to Triple Crown PC, IC, SC and to me they all sound the same (really open, dynamic and transparent without any hint of harshness), it’s just getting more natural and clear as the range progresses to the higher end of the range. I can see that the basic philosophy between yours and Siltech’s is similar, I am really wondering if one would compare Zenwave highest echelon to Siltech’s Crown-Double-Triple Crown?

By the way, the new system will be:
- Pilium Elektra DAC (recessed RCA receptacle so existing Siltech Triple Crown humongous RCA can’t fit in)
- HSE Phono stage ( XLR only on HSE Phono but need to go to Kondo G70 Pre with RCA only, so have to get XLR to RCA IC therefore existing Siltech Triple Crown IC also cannot be used)
- Wolf Von Langa Berlin speaker (my speaker cable is only King level, would like to upgrade to Triple Crown level)
- Kondo Ongaku and G70 amp/pre

Many thanks and have a good weekend.
Currently listening to the Siltech Triple Crown PC as an audition... In our system, we have heard:

- Transparent Opus Gen 5
- Vertere (very briefly)
- Crystal Absolute Dream
- Purist Audio 25th Anniversary, Anniversary Contego and Dominus Rev B, C
- Gryphon VIP Ref 5
- Sablon Audio Prince (our current reference which very comfortably bested all of the above in our system for us)

To say that I am impressed is a serious understatement. Remarkably effortless, utterly natural articulation. Grace, power, massed strings are revealed in their glory as individual instruments working together to create a wave of music...rather than a mass of strings or even a semi-mass...you really get the complete instantaneous understanding that this is a series of violins playing as a seamless ensemble, where a series of the same note are all coming forward together in this ensemble.

Very, very impressive. I am listening to another cable in late-stage design/early production at the same time...shockingly close and still trying to work out the standing between the two.
 
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Uwiik

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Mar 2, 2021
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Currently listening to the Siltech Triple Crown PC as an audition... In our system, we have heard:

- Transparent Opus Gen 5
- Vertere (very briefly)
- Crystal Absolute Dream
- Purist Audio 25th Anniversary, Anniversary Contego and Dominus Rev B, C
- Gryphon VIP Ref 5
- Sablon Audio Prince (our current reference which very comfortably bested all of the above in our system for us)

To say that I am impressed is a serious understatement. Remarkably effortless, utterly natural articulation. Grace, power, massed strings are revealed in their glory as individual instruments working together to create a wave of music...rather than a mass of strings or even a semi-mass...you really get the complete instantaneous understanding that this is a series of violins playing as a seamless ensemble, where a series of the same note are all coming forward together in this ensemble.

Very, very impressive. I am listening to another cable in late-stage design/early production at the same time...shockingly close and still trying to work out the standing between the two.
Once you hear Triple Crown everything else are veiled
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Once you hear Triple Crown everything else are veiled
It is indeed a mighty impressive cable. Have you already gotten all Triple Crown in your system...or are you still building the system? I have enjoyed reading your new adventures in your latest acquisition of those horns.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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Hi @Uwiik

Sorry for my late reply! I had a case of covid late October / Early November so I missed a lot of things, but luckily I've fully recovered.

I've had a lot of comparisons vs the Siltech Triple Crown, and while I haven't been able to hear for myself yet reports indicate they are very similar. And indeed they are very similar cables. Both use the same plugs, which make a huge difference in how a cable sounds. Both use UPOCC silver and teflon, which has the next largest impact. In terms of electrical characteristics I'm not 100% sure, but what I think from the reports I've heard is the ZenWave PSR cable is lower inductance, which is likely the case as the ribbon conductors have extremely low inductance due to both shape and conductor spacing. You simply can't achieve the same electrical characteristics using round wire. It's also likely some of the Siltech cables are heavier gauge but I have no idea if this is the case. My PSR could get down to 9 gauge but it would be really large diameter! \

I did have some customers choose my cables, both the PSR silver ribbon power cables as well as the SSR silver ribbon speaker cable over the Triple Crown cables even when price wasn't an issue and the cables were used in truly cost no object systems. One has posted in the MSB DAC thread. Another could obtain the Siltech cables at less than half price, he still choice my PSR and SSR. Another in HK.

I would also say my silver ribbon cables would be at least 5x the price if sold via dealers. If you happen to like UPOCC silver cables, ones that have been designed by an engineer with real-world durability and safety in mind, ones that have proper tone and timbre as well as clarity, I don't think you can beat ZenWave, but you can certainly pay 5-10x more and get a very similar cable. Compared to Siltech you can get whole system's worth of cables for a single Triple Crown. I have an emphasis on value vs luxury as I can't offer the same kind of service a local dealer can, so I'm not saying don't buy Siltech, I'm really sure you'll love them if you do. It just depends on whether a dealer is important to you, budget, etc...

I do offer free demos, it's easy in the US, possible internationally depending on the country.
 

Sablon Audio

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
May 22, 2015
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Currently listening to the Siltech Triple Crown PC as an audition... In our system, we have heard:

- Transparent Opus Gen 5
- Vertere (very briefly)
- Crystal Absolute Dream
- Purist Audio 25th Anniversary, Anniversary Contego and Dominus Rev B, C
- Gryphon VIP Ref 5
- Sablon Audio Prince (our current reference which very comfortably bested all of the above in our system for us)

To say that I am impressed is a serious understatement. Remarkably effortless, utterly natural articulation. Grace, power, massed strings are revealed in their glory as individual instruments working together to create a wave of music...rather than a mass of strings or even a semi-mass...you really get the complete instantaneous understanding that this is a series of violins playing as a seamless ensemble, where a series of the same note are all coming forward together in this ensemble.

Very, very impressive. I am listening to another cable in late-stage design/early production at the same time...shockingly close and still trying to work out the standing between the two.
@LL21 - there are two potential upgrades worth considering for your Prince cords. Swap the SR Orange mains plug fuse for a new Purple (or QSA?) one and also to change over the silver plated Bocchino iec for a custom platinum plated one.
 

Uwiik

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2021
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It is indeed a mighty impressive cable. Have you already gotten all Triple Crown in your system...or are you still building the system? I have enjoyed reading your new adventures in your latest acquisition of those horns.
Not all triple crown yet for a few reasons:
- Money, I also like exotic cars, wristwatch, arts and properties/land and due to Covid there are so many hot things at good price right now, so not enough money to buy all Siltech TC at once.
- Dealer, the dealer in my country is…..ummmm……not the best I’d say. Absolutely zero stock of anything crown/double/triple level and must pay 30% down to order anything that will arrive 3 months later
- Siltech’s own pricing policy, I think this is one of the most ridiculous thing about the brand. Price difference of 1m and 1.5m cable is stratospheric for just 50cm difference, no other brand does that and I don’t like that pricing policy, I think it’s purely neck squeezing policy by the company. That is why I am also trying Goebel and wanting to try Zenwave too right now to see if I can ditch Siltech.
 

Uwiik

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2021
388
360
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Hi @Uwiik

Sorry for my late reply! I had a case of covid late October / Early November so I missed a lot of things, but luckily I've fully recovered.

I've had a lot of comparisons vs the Siltech Triple Crown, and while I haven't been able to hear for myself yet reports indicate they are very similar. And indeed they are very similar cables. Both use the same plugs, which make a huge difference in how a cable sounds. Both use UPOCC silver and teflon, which has the next largest impact. In terms of electrical characteristics I'm not 100% sure, but what I think from the reports I've heard is the ZenWave PSR cable is lower inductance, which is likely the case as the ribbon conductors have extremely low inductance due to both shape and conductor spacing. You simply can't achieve the same electrical characteristics using round wire. It's also likely some of the Siltech cables are heavier gauge but I have no idea if this is the case. My PSR could get down to 9 gauge but it would be really large diameter! \

I did have some customers choose my cables, both the PSR silver ribbon power cables as well as the SSR silver ribbon speaker cable over the Triple Crown cables even when price wasn't an issue and the cables were used in truly cost no object systems. One has posted in the MSB DAC thread. Another could obtain the Siltech cables at less than half price, he still choice my PSR and SSR. Another in HK.

I would also say my silver ribbon cables would be at least 5x the price if sold via dealers. If you happen to like UPOCC silver cables, ones that have been designed by an engineer with real-world durability and safety in mind, ones that have proper tone and timbre as well as clarity, I don't think you can beat ZenWave, but you can certainly pay 5-10x more and get a very similar cable. Compared to Siltech you can get whole system's worth of cables for a single Triple Crown. I have an emphasis on value vs luxury as I can't offer the same kind of service a local dealer can, so I'm not saying don't buy Siltech, I'm really sure you'll love them if you do. It just depends on whether a dealer is important to you, budget, etc...

I do offer free demos, it's easy in the US, possible internationally depending on the country.
Hi Dave, glad to know you’re well. I got Covid meself on June and although I have perfect health and exercise regularly mine was very severe I almost didn’t make it. I was in total home care/bed rest mode for 30 days I had to relearn to walk properly again after I recovered. I couldn’t be admitted to hospital because all hospitals are overwhelmed. I experienced the horror of seeing a team of fully hazmat covered doctor/nurse ransacking my bedroom everyday while I was hallucinating and almost mute due to the severity of my Covid. It wasn’t pretty at all, this thing is serious. I was an anti vax but now I am fully vaccinated.

Now back to the topic, Dave, I gotta say I am very interested to try your cable. How should we continue the discussion and purchase? WhatsApp or PM is fine by me. You can send me a demo but you cannot declare it as such due to 35% tax against full price + shipping I have to pay anyway, doesn’t matter if it’s just for demo to be re exported again. I wanna try your broken in highest end RCA for a direct apple to apple comparison with my existing Siltech RCA. Please send me a PM if you read this and we’ll continue with the discussion.

Many thanks and stay healthy!!
 
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Marcin_gps

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I spent over 100k on cables in the past 10 years searching for ultimate cables. I should have skipped all and go straight to siltech DC/ TC. Siltech double crown and triple crown are just something else.
 
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LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
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Not all triple crown yet for a few reasons:
- Money, I also like exotic cars, wristwatch, arts and properties/land and due to Covid there are so many hot things at good price right now, so not enough money to buy all Siltech TC at once.
- Dealer, the dealer in my country is…..ummmm……not the best I’d say. Absolutely zero stock of anything crown/double/triple level and must pay 30% down to order anything that will arrive 3 months later
- Siltech’s own pricing policy, I think this is one of the most ridiculous thing about the brand. Price difference of 1m and 1.5m cable is stratospheric for just 50cm difference, no other brand does that and I don’t like that pricing policy, I think it’s purely neck squeezing policy by the company. That is why I am also trying Goebel and wanting to try Zenwave too right now to see if I can ditch Siltech.
Got it. Which watches?
 

Uwiik

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2021
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I spent over 100k on cables in the past 10 years searching for ultimate cables. I should have skipped all and go straight to siltech DC/ TC. Siltech double crown and triple crown are just something else.
That would be my attitude if their pricing policy regarding length more sense. They purposely make their price based on the shortest/most inconvenient length then the price jump stratospherically on each 50 cm addition… that’s gouging in my book. For example, their DC/TC cable is clearly aimed for those who can afford it, most who can afford Siltech TC will have wider room but funny enough they based their base price for the DC/TC speaker cable on the 1.5m length while almost every other brand based their price on 2.5m length, so most of their customers aren’t buying the base price DC/TC SC, most have to upgrade to 2-2.5m and the price differences are stratospheric on each 50 cm increments. I don’t mind high end brand making very good money, everybody wants to make very good money. But gouging is something else entirely.

You should also try Goebel, I spent the same as you on cable in less than 12 months and was on the exact same attitude as you until I tried Goebel, my Goebel is MUCH cheaper than Siltech King and it spank the Siltech King SC no contest, my Siltech King is sitting unused collecting dust now. I am yet to do proper lengthy comparison between Goebel VS Siltech DC/TC.

Now I am wanting to try Zenwave based on Dave’s direct challenge against Siltech and that’s really brave on Dave’s part in my book. I can always go back to all Siltech and upgrade everything to DC/TC level whenever I want and that would be a guaranteed fool proof result if/when I am willing but I am feeling adventurous right now.
 
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Uwiik

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Mar 2, 2021
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Got it. Which watches?
just Rolex and AP. Nothing exotic or too spendy, especially not RM, way too hyped up for a toy/boy racer wannabe recently founded brand watch so I can’t/don’t want to afford RM. But that’s off course IMO. Many of my friends worships RM.
 
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Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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You should also try Goebel, I spent the same as you on cable in less than 12 months and was on the exact same attitude as you until I tried Goebel, my Goebel is MUCH cheaper than Siltech King and it spank the Siltech King SC no contest, my Siltech King is sitting unused collecting dust now. I am yet to do proper lengthy comparison between Goebel VS Siltech DC/TC.

Now I am wanting to try Zenwave based on Dave’s direct challenge against Siltech and that’s really brave on Dave’s part in my book. I can always go back to all Siltech and upgrade everything to DC/TC level whenever I want and that would be a guaranteed fool proof result if/when I am willing but I am feeling adventurous right now.
Apart from pricing difference, it is rather strange you chose or recommend Gobel substituting TC. The two brands have very different sonic dna. Unless one careless about sound but just want to spend on cable at maximum budget available...

Zenwave sonic dna would has more possibility of nearing Siltech than the Gobel. The best is to build a system that does not depend on cable so much.
 

Uwiik

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Mar 2, 2021
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Apart from pricing difference, it is rather strange you chose or recommend Gobel substituting TC. The two brands have very different sonic dna. Unless one careless about sound but just want to spend on cable at maximum budget available...

Zenwave sonic dna would has more possibility of nearing Siltech than the Gobel. The best is to build a system that does not depend on cable so much.
My Goebel doesn’t replace Siltech TC, I don’t have all DC/TC yet on the whole loom. It was Siltech King Speaker Cable that got substituted with Goebel. Goebel is IMO more neutral than Siltech King, at least on the SC side of the whole loom.
 

Uwiik

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Mar 2, 2021
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The best is to build a system that does not depend on cable so much.
You got it spot on @Tango , my current system is not as dependent on cable unlike my previous system, I still hear difference between my DC and TC interconnect but not as drastically as my previous system. Hence my reluctance to do all DC/TC for the whole loom.
 

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