Confessions of a audio tweaker and the quest for the live illusion.

[RogerD]

Keep talking, Roger! You've got to convince others of what's possible, so they're motivated to also follow this path ...

Cheers,
Frank

I just wanted to say the music has such a intimate quality now,imagine that with a orchestra or better yet,Diana Krall, oh I won't go there.

 

[RogerD]

Hi Rich,

Listening to the Nelson Riddle again with my psycho's in the loop it is quickly evident that there is a mismatch now created. So if you use the ferrites on the main pair I think you need them on all the speakers.

The magic is still in place. I'm going to order another pair of ferrites for the Psycho's and see if that puts them back into balance with the satellites.

I think I'm going to take a step back and let this all settle in,because I have this system and soundstage sounding well to my liking. Adding ferrites to IC's could create mismatches and also with the PC's.

Time to smell the roses.

 

[fas42]

Listening to the Nelson Riddle again with my psycho's in the loop it is quickly evident that there is a mismatch now created. So if you use the ferrites on the main pair I think you need them on all the speakers

I've got a funny feeling you might end up deciding that the system sounds better without the Psycho's working (that sounds good, eh? ). But then again, I have been known to be wrong!

Frank

 

[RogerD]

Frank,

Possible but not probable,keeping my fingers crossed

 

[RogerD]

Update:

I have the ferrites on the psycho speakers at the amplifier end and the balance has returned to normal with one caveat. I turned down the volume half way on the psycho's, because the increase in gain is just too much at this time.

This might change if the gain level dereases,but if it does and I doubt it will,it will not effet the total signature of the sound. So far that signature is more relaxed with a level of clarity and overall fine dispersion of the sound field that the music has a "mist" quality that just envelopes the listener.

I have ordered one more ferrite for my preamp power cord. If that continues to bring improvement I will probably add to other PC's (DAC,transport,R2R,Amplifiers). I will probably stop there and not use these on the IC's.

So far it has transformed the system sound,with magnitude level increased clarity,dynamics,and has really effected the radiated field of sound produced from all my speakers. I am a lot closer to the "live illusion".

For the little over 130 dollars spent so far,the improvements are stunning as the sound now envelopes me in a cacoon type enviroment.

 

[naturephoto1]

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the updates. It was really Dave Schulte of the Upgrade Company that had turned me onto ferrite filters on my Power Cords. When he would sell Power Cords to me (Usually Analysis Plus Oval 2 with Oyaide 079 connectors) he would include the Ferrites on the Power Cords. This was all an outgrowth of his efforts in his upgrades to components where he was largely trying to deal with RFI and EMI issues in the upgraded machines. I do not want to get into debate with Forum members about this and let us just keep this to the Upgrade Company thread. But, and in any case, David had found that he was finding that the Power Cords were having more of an affect on the sound than the ICs and he found that the Ferrite Filters on the Power Cords frequently helped to raise the bar even more. I think that David may well be correct that the Power Cords may well have more of an affect on the sound than the ICs. But, I normally just used the Ferrite Filters on the Power Cords and never normally made an attempt to compare the sound of the naked Power Cords and the Cords with the Ferrite filters in place. After awhile it starts to get so complicated with some many components, wires, cables, tweaks, etc. but my system has become quite clear and open sounding. It is amazing that all of the additions and changes are so much more readily noticeable since I installed the Acoustic Room treatments.

I have yet to consider the star grounding or grounding of my components as you have. I am a bit concerned about this and as it is with the limited walk space between the wall and the equipment racks there are already a tremendous number of wires as well as Acoustic Room treatments. I do not want to trip and pull the grounding wires running to the wall and to the other components.

By the way, I like your Accuphase equipment. I used to use an Accuphase E202 integrated amp in my system (it is retired but sitting upstairs) and was the contemporary of your Accupahse C200 preamp and your Accuphase P300 power amps. My major concern for these excellent vintage components are the small connectors for speaker wires (unless the amps/integrated amps are modified).

Rich

 

[RogerD]

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the updates. It was really Dave Schulte of the Upgrade Company that had turned me onto ferrite filers on my Power Cords. When he would sell Power Cords to me (Usually Analysis Plus Oval 2 with Oyaide 079 connectors) he would include the Ferrites on the Power Cords. This was all an outgrowth of his efforts in his upgrades to components where he was largely trying to deal with RFI and EMI issues in the upgraded machines. I do not want to get into debate with Forum members about this and let us just keep this to the Upgrade Company thread. But, and in any case, David had found that he was finding that the Power Cords were having more of an affect on the sound than the ICs and he found that the Ferrite Filters on the Power Cords frequently helped to raise the bar even more. I think that David may well be correct that the Power Cords may well have more of an affect on the sound than the ICs. But, I normally just used the Ferrite Filters on the Power Cords and never normally made an attempt to compare the sound of the naked Power Cords and the Cords with the Ferrite filters in place. After awhile it starts to get so complicated with some many components, wires, cables, tweaks, etc. but my system has become quite clear and open sounding. It is amazing that all of the additions and changes are so much more readily noticeable since I installed the Acoustic Room treatments.

I have yet to consider the star grounding or grounding of my components as you have. I am a bit concerned about this and as it is with the limited walk space between the wall and the equipment racks there are already a tremendous number of wires as well as Acoustic Room treatments. I do not to trip and pull the grounding wires running to the wall and to the other components.

By the way, I like your Accuphase equipment. I used to use an Accuphase E202 integrated amp in my system (it is retired but sitting upstairs) and was the contemporary of your Accupahse C200 preamp and your Accuphase P300 power amps. My major concern for these excellent vintage components are the small connectors for speaker wires (unless the amps/integrated amps are modified).

Rich

Hi Rich,

I have revoiced the Accuphase preamp and amp and yet to hit a wall with them. The preamp has been amazing, about as close to the "wire with gain" I have ever experienced.

As with the ferrites and PC's, I have climbed up the latter with Walter's PC's and each step is a improvement,but my RFI/EMI experiments have really jumped the usual upgrade mentality. I liken it to busting the sound barrier or should I say what the normal routines for most of us in this hobby.

I am focusing on strickly erradication or mitigation of EMI/RFI and the superhighway has removed internally genererated interferance. The amplifiers generate a large amout and transfer it through the speaker cables, the ferrite performance validates this. Now ferrites placed on the PC's at the component end should complete the cleasnsing to a high level. I am unsure if using these on the IC's will make a difference,as my IC's are designed to not act as attenna for the interference. At some point though I might experiment,but I think IC's can have a dramatic effect on overall sound system balance and soundstage realism,so I am reluctant to go there.

This technology is old but in high end I think we are just scratching the surface. I have multiple computers in my house not to mention circuit boards from my oven,microwave,refrigerator,thermostat,and god knows what else. When you think about all your neighbors,I can see why the steps have taken my system to a new level.

 

[fas42]

As with the ferrites and PC's, I have climbed up the latter with Walter's PC's and each step is a improvement,but my RFI/EMI experiments have really jumped the usual upgrade mentality. I liken it to busting the sound barrier or should I say what the normal routines for most of us in this hobby.

I am focusing on strickly erradication or mitigation of EMI/RFI and the superhighway has removed internally genererated interferance. The amplifiers generate a large amout and transfer it through the speaker cables, the ferrite performance validates this. Now ferrites placed on the PC's at the component end should complete the cleasnsing to a high level. I am unsure if using these on the IC's will make a difference,as my IC's are designed to not act as attenna for the interference. At some point though I might experiment,but I think IC's can have a dramatic effect on overall sound system balance and soundstage realism,so I am reluctant to go there.

This technology is old but in high end I think we are just scratching the surface. I have multiple computers in my house not to mention circuit boards from my oven,microwave,refrigerator,thermostat,and god knows what else. When you think about all your neighbors,I can see why the steps have taken my system to a new level.

This is all good material, Roger. As Rich has mentioned, the closer you get to good sound, the more sensitive the system becomes to everything that is still not right, and the fussier you can be, and you need to be, to get it all exactly correct. So the downside is that you have to work at it, keep working at it -- there is no off the shelf solution, none so far that I have found -- but the upside is that you will get glorious sound!

As regards other appliances in the house, a very good test to see where you're at, as I have already described to Jack, is to compare the sound normally with that after you go around the house and switch off and pull out the plug of every electrical device running off your place's power. With the system working at a high level but still with weaknesses this should make a major difference, but if the system is totally sorted then there will be no change -- if this makes sense ...

Frank

 

[RogerD]

Hi Frank,

I installed deicated lines when I first moved the system to my condo. I beleive the electrical foundation to be rock solid. Now I have experienced better sound off the grid late at night in the past,but that han't been a problem once I installed the super highway 2 years ago.

These new sound revelations of mine have occured because I have read up on EMI/RFI problems in electrical circuits and tried different things. Nothing expensive or far different just minor tweaking.

When the overall gain in your system increases by several DB or more,just by creating a pathway of least resistance for the "noise" to exit,you have done something dramatic and I can hear it at every level.

 

[fas42]

Hi Frank,

I installed deicated lines when I first moved the system to my condo. I beleive the electrical foundation to be rock solid. Now I have experienced better sound off the grid late at night in the past,but that han't been a problem once I installed the super highway 2 years ago.

I still reckon it will be worth trying switching off everything, absolutely everything. I was lucky that I effectively had close to a dedicated spur when I was getting my first good results, and that certainly helped. But the better the sound gets for me, the more the last bit of quality becomes totally dependent on the last little problem. Many, many times I know there is a problem, which wasn't there the previous day, say, and it's because one little, tiny thing was overlooked in between the two listening sessions. You just have to be very, very, very fussy!

When the overall gain in your system increases by several DB or more,just by creating a pathway of least resistance for the "noise" to exit,you have done something dramatic and I can hear it at every level.

If you were to put a sound meter on it, there would be absolutely no change in volume. What's happening is that your ear and brain are reacting to the cleaner, or dirtier, sound and interpreting it as being a change in volume. Your brain is very, very smart in its ability to react to sound, and automatically adjusts its own gain control inside your head to handle different qualities and levels of sound as it needs to. This is probably an evolved protection mechanism: bad high level sound damages the ears, so the brain says, this is too loud, and so you turn it down or get out of the way ...

Frank

 

[RogerD]

If you were to put a sound meter on it, there would be absolutely no change in volume. What's happening is that your ear and brain are reacting to the cleaner, or dirtier, sound and interpreting it as being a change in volume. Your brain is very, very smart in its ability to react to sound, and automatically adjusts its own gain control inside your head to handle different qualities and levels of sound as it needs to. This is probably an evolved protection mechanism: bad high level sound damages the ears, so the brain says, this is too loud, and so you turn it down or get out of the way ...

Frank

My brother,father and I disagree,lol.

Frank, this is a very common experience for me when I have broken in cables before. This is a by product of the reduced noise(EMI/RFI) in the system. What actually is taking place is the speaker efficiancy has increased. That's why the dispersion pattern of the drivers improves yielding greater detail,bloom,and dynamics.

 

[fas42]

My brother,father and I disagree,lol.

But, do you have a sound meter at all ? I would be curious what the readings were ...

Frank