Confessions of an Audiophile Junky-I Got Center Stage With Pitch Perfect Sound

Hi Peter,

I was watching the playoffs and read this just before turning in. I promised myself I’d respond in the morning, but it bothered me so much I couldn’t sleep. So, here I am, groggy but vertical. I hope I can express myself clearly……..

I think Steve and I may have a problem and if we do, we should sort it out and fix it now. So, I’m asking you to please respond to this whenever you have the time. And, if anyone else wants to provide their thoughts, please do so. All opinions are welcome.

My concern is the marketing piece conflicts with the engineering piece. I’ll start with the engineering piece. The traditional stereo listening experience has the listener seated in front of the loudspeakers and the musicians positioned behind the loudspeakers. There is an imaginary “wall” at the front plane of the loudspeakers that separates the listener from the musicians.

What I am saying is that it doesn’t have to be this way. You can remove the “wall”. Your components are already engineered to reproduce very low-level details previously embedded in recordings that will generate a 3-dimensional recreation of the original event with much greater density, separation and tonal color and extend outward from behind your loudspeakers, into your room and all around you. You “see” the event, you “hear” the event and you “feel” the event. Music becomes an experience, not just a song. For this to occur, it must be in the recording. If it’s not in there, it won’t occur. If it is in there, your components will force your loudspeakers to reproduce it. This effect is most prevalent with 4 CS under each component in the signal path (not including the tt).

The question is, what do you call this. I came up with the “Total Immersion Effect”. I don’t know what else to call it. Center Stage was a name given to the product in support of the effect. The issue that continues to surface, as you have just pointed out, is that taken literally as portrayed in the advertisement, the notion of sitting center stage is foreign to our listening experiences and expectations. It sounds like something is either wrong or just plain bullshit.

If this is the image we are portraying, then we need to change the ad copy ASAP. So I ask, do we need to change the ad copy?

I look forward to hearing from you…..

Hi Joe,

I tend to take things a bit literally, especially ad copy, presuming it is the intention of the advertiser to convey a message. Words matter, and all that that implies. Having read the first page of this thread, both the comments from those who have heard your devices in their systems, and then the ads that Steve posted from TAS, sent a contradictory message, in my opinion. I thought about my experience with both my system and my time hearing live music in Symphony Hall in Boston and in chamber settings. Thank you for clarifying the intent of the devices and explaining what you mean by "Total Immersion Effect."

I have been hearing what you describe in my system for quite a few years now. I specifically remember the dramatic change when I invited Jim Smith to my house to voice my system to my room. That was the beginning of my own immersion effect. I have had quite a few discussions with Jim since then about the distinction between the origin of the sound, that incredible energy, as it is produced by instruments on a stage or audio system and the sound which then busts forth into the hall or listening room. In the best circumstances and systems, this sound and energy can surround and envelope the listener. This is what I hear at the best live venues, and this is what I now hear in my system. The sound is not restricted to the plane of the speakers, and the space behind them, but rather, it moves around and fills the room. It is room filling with the listener placed within it. However, this is markedly different from the sound and experience one has when on stage surrounded by musicians making sound from all directions. That is like a movie theater experience with helicopters and bullets flying in all directions. Reproduced music in the home should be more directional with the musicians seated on stage in front of the listener or audience but still be immersive and room filling.

The analogy of a film screen is an interesting one. Like film, I "see" the musicians in front of me while sitting in my listening room. However, the sound that the instruments make is all around me, not restricted to the virtual location of the musicians, and not restricted to behind the plane of the speakers. This immersive effect is rare in a system and it is in large part what distinguishes exceptional systems from the rest. In my experience it is due mostly to speaker and listener position within the room and the quality of the recording, and to a lesser extent the quality of the gear and its low noise floor. Your new footers seem intended to improve this effect by lowering the noise floor so that the ambient hall information imbedded in the recording can be reproduced by the system and heard by the listener. I am all for that.

I happen to think that your ad copy is misleading or at least can give the wrong impression of your intentions with the product. Others have dismissed it simply as "marketing hyperbole", but frankly, I think you would be better served to more clearly describe or express what the devices are actually doing for the listener experience. Your intentions and the effect of the footers should be more clearly expressed by your marketing efforts. From everything that I have read about your racks and now these footers, I have the impression that your company and efforts are very serious. The ad copy should reflect this more accurately and not be confusing for the reader.

My posts and questions in this thread were simply an attempt to better understand what the footers are intended to do so that I could decide if I wanted to pursue an audition. Other products in the past have attempted to put the listener within the stage or the virtual scene, so to speak. I am reminded of headphones, surround sound multi channel music, and some phase distorting/manipulation devices which create a sense of "space". I was concerned with the implication that your footers would give the listener a perspective which I do not experience when listening to live music. I prefer sitting fairly close to the stage and musicians and hearing the direct sound from the instruments while also being surrounded by the reflected sounds of a good hall. This is what the best recordings and systems attempt to recreate.

I don't know what to suggest about how to advertise your new footers, but I appreciate that you want to hear feedback about your marketing. So far, I find the marketing a bit confusing compared to the written and stated objectives that you have made in this thread. I do wish you and Steve great success because if these footers do help a system move closer to that which we experience with live music, that is to be encouraged and celebrated.
 
Hi Mike,

Obviously, we're happy your trying CS. Thank you for that.

If a tweak is defined as a refinement to an existing system, then I would be disappointed if CS ultimately fell into that category. The intent is to differentiate high end audio from cell phone ear buds and headphones. In my view, our wonderful hobby is stuck in the mud. 'Buds and 'phones offer a close, personal listening experience that 2-channel has not been able to surpass or, in almost every case, achieve to date. CS has the potential to elevate the listening experience by providing a close personal listening experience within a large scale system. 'Buds and "phones can't do that. We can do this with virtually any electronics (I'm sure we'll find an exception sooner or later), using virtually any resting surface for your components. Achieving this requires (so far as I can tell today) 4 CS under the components in a signal path. I'm sure there may be exceptions to this, and, if so, I'm fine with that. In your case, (at RMAF I think you said 8 under 2 power supplies) you have every right to expect a refinement to your system and I think you'll get that. People who ultimately commit to using CS in a signal path have every right to expect more and I think they'll get that.

Are the first paragraphs of your post directed at me?

With all due respect, I certainly hope your feet would not turn me hifi into giant headphones. I hate the "in your head" perspective... very unnatural.
 
With all due respect, I certainly hope your feet would not turn me hifi into giant headphones. I hate the "in your head" perspective... very unnatural.

Maybe they produce the sound resemblance to MBL. And not putting you in center stage as their ad said.

Tang
 
With all due respect, I certainly hope your feet would not turn me hifi into giant headphones. I hate the "in your head" perspective... very unnatural.

Completely agree. That "in your head" perspective is very unnatural and I would avoid anything that pushes a conventional two channel stereo audio system with speakers in that direction.
 
Hi from Big Bear California where it’s 26 degrees as we are up 7000 feet

As for turning ones Hifi into a giant head phone this is just not the case. Further to call the foot a tweak is far from the truth.

If you all had read what I have written in pitchperfectsound.com you will appreciate my comments. I said that prior to my using a CMS rack my Sound was very good but I was in the rear orchestra. Using CMS racks moved me to the first three rows of the orchestra and when the Feet were inserted into the system I was moved even closer to the music. A feeling of immersion. I sense I caused issues with members but I maintain that after an audition of these feet in ones system the analogy becomes easily appreciated and understood.
 
Steve and Joe, I'd suggest clarity and transparency of communication is even more vital when it comes to what some might consider the more fringe areas of audio. As a person who spent a good part of the first half of their career in TV direction, advertising and copywriting and the second half in teaching design, clear communication has been something of an area of focus. Clarity is always a struggle especially with higher order concepts.

Simply the less than clear notion of being cast at the centre of the stage perhaps as an attempt to explain the experience doesn't really immediately communicate what it is as demonstrated simply by the degree of confusion, required additional clarification and still conflicting understanding brought out in this thread. It is just something of a more abstruse concept and centre stage is also just a bit close to the more familiar perception of the setting of a sound stage.

Sound stage is an element of the context of the sound. We simply expect not to be cast in the centre of it even if you are meaning something different with it as a perception.

Add to this the connected tag line of the total immersion effect which perhaps might not just be about the context of the sound and perhaps about the immersion into the performance through the music. Maybe less focus on sonics as outcome and more about the experience of music could help explain the idea of being immersed and then lifted out of our normal experience. Sound stage is viewed from a distance but it is music that brings us to the centre.

If you also wanted to then confidently relax back on the hyperbole just a touch you could let go of the word total and also swap out effect (which sounds in some ways a bit more like a trick) and change it simply to experience.

So something along the lines of Pitch Perfect Centre Stage Products new CMS footers, the musically immersive experience.

Also on the whole tweak thing in general we should aim to banish the word to lesser products. With all the kinds of performance enhancement and also kinds of investment that the best in resonance control, power conditioning and grounding can offer tweak just doesn't cover it any more. These types of equipment are so much more than tweaks now and all can be so profound in their effect that the very word tweak seems such a pale undervaluing. Many more traditional components fail to deliver anywhere near the kind of essential system upgrades that the best of the so called tweaks can. They are also priced in line with any other significant audio devices.

More than component level upgrade is such a common reference when people are describing their experiences with the best of electrical and mechanical management devices these days. Tweak should perhaps be a term shelved or saved for the little stuff like audiophile fuses and similarly scaled improvements... just me 2 cents tho.

Hi Tao

When I read posts as well written as this, I am painfully aware of the inadequacies of my communication skills. This is very well said. Thank you. We'll take this under consideration. We're early on in the launch of the product and we can make appropriate changes. I really appreciate the time you took to write this.
 
I'd agree, it does seem like modest transducers can recreate low level info. I should have been more specific that it's often the cone 'n' dome speaker's interaction with the room that masks or smears the info and not necessarily the speaker it's self.

I really don't see an issue with the marketing copy, it might be a bit optimistic but compared to the norm it seems somewhat reasonable! :)

Thank you Dave, for taking the time to respond. Very appreciated.
 
Hi Joe,

I tend to take things a bit literally, especially ad copy, presuming it is the intention of the advertiser to convey a message. Words matter, and all that that implies. Having read the first page of this thread, both the comments from those who have heard your devices in their systems, and then the ads that Steve posted from TAS, sent a contradictory message, in my opinion. I thought about my experience with both my system and my time hearing live music in Symphony Hall in Boston and in chamber settings. Thank you for clarifying the intent of the devices and explaining what you mean by "Total Immersion Effect."

I have been hearing what you describe in my system for quite a few years now. I specifically remember the dramatic change when I invited Jim Smith to my house to voice my system to my room. That was the beginning of my own immersion effect. I have had quite a few discussions with Jim since then about the distinction between the origin of the sound, that incredible energy, as it is produced by instruments on a stage or audio system and the sound which then busts forth into the hall or listening room. In the best circumstances and systems, this sound and energy can surround and envelope the listener. This is what I hear at the best live venues, and this is what I now hear in my system. The sound is not restricted to the plane of the speakers, and the space behind them, but rather, it moves around and fills the room. It is room filling with the listener placed within it. However, this is markedly different from the sound and experience one has when on stage surrounded by musicians making sound from all directions. That is like a movie theater experience with helicopters and bullets flying in all directions. Reproduced music in the home should be more directional with the musicians seated on stage in front of the listener or audience but still be immersive and room filling.

The analogy of a film screen is an interesting one. Like film, I "see" the musicians in front of me while sitting in my listening room. However, the sound that the instruments make is all around me, not restricted to the virtual location of the musicians, and not restricted to behind the plane of the speakers. This immersive effect is rare in a system and it is in large part what distinguishes exceptional systems from the rest. In my experience it is due mostly to speaker and listener position within the room and the quality of the recording, and to a lesser extent the quality of the gear and its low noise floor. Your new footers seem intended to improve this effect by lowering the noise floor so that the ambient hall information imbedded in the recording can be reproduced by the system and heard by the listener. I am all for that.

I happen to think that your ad copy is misleading or at least can give the wrong impression of your intentions with the product. Others have dismissed it simply as "marketing hyperbole", but frankly, I think you would be better served to more clearly describe or express what the devices are actually doing for the listener experience. Your intentions and the effect of the footers should be more clearly expressed by your marketing efforts. From everything that I have read about your racks and now these footers, I have the impression that your company and efforts are very serious. The ad copy should reflect this more accurately and not be confusing for the reader.

My posts and questions in this thread were simply an attempt to better understand what the footers are intended to do so that I could decide if I wanted to pursue an audition. Other products in the past have attempted to put the listener within the stage or the virtual scene, so to speak. I am reminded of headphones, surround sound multi channel music, and some phase distorting/manipulation devices which create a sense of "space". I was concerned with the implication that your footers would give the listener a perspective which I do not experience when listening to live music. I prefer sitting fairly close to the stage and musicians and hearing the direct sound from the instruments while also being surrounded by the reflected sounds of a good hall. This is what the best recordings and systems attempt to recreate.

I don't know what to suggest about how to advertise your new footers, but I appreciate that you want to hear feedback about your marketing. So far, I find the marketing a bit confusing compared to the written and stated objectives that you have made in this thread. I do wish you and Steve great success because if these footers do help a system move closer to that which we experience with live music, that is to be encouraged and celebrated.

Hi Peter,

Thank you for this thoughtful response. It's becoming clear to me that Steve and I need to redo the marketing message. We don't want to alienate intelligent people with serious systems who are experienced listeners and exacting in their requirements. I can't thank you enough for continually driving this point home until it finally sank in. I'm sorry it took so long for me to get it. I don't have the answer as to what the ad should look like or say right now, but I do know that it must be improved.
 
I'm struggling with any component or tweak that promises something more radical or unique than anything else.
OTOH, I have no problem with any component or tweak that says it's great at producing the effects we all look for like transparency, cohesiveness, imaging, continuity etc.
And my journey into achieving these things has expanded my soundstage to effectively make things more immersive.
I'm just a little jaundiced with exhorbitant claims, and the claims here that these footers do things no others do, leaves me a little cold. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
There are so many parallels with the infamous MasterBuilt overcooked claims, and that one turned me right off the company.
 
The question is, what do you call this. I came up with the “Total Immersion Effect”. I don’t know what else to call it. Center Stage was a name given to the product in support of the effect. The issue that continues to surface, as you have just pointed out, is that taken literally as portrayed in the advertisement, the notion of sitting center stage is foreign to our listening experiences and expectations. It sounds like something is either wrong or just plain bullshit.

Hi Joe,

If I may offer some perspective here regarding this thread and the veiled echoes of bullshit you're hearing; IMO the responses are a reaction to Steve's high levels of enthusiasm for the product and some of your replies here including a comment in this paragraph rather than the ad, if this is the one in question. I don't like the ad for other reasons but that's not my business and only replying because I think that you're genuinely asking.

AS-Critical-Mass.jpg

david
 
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Hi Joe,

I tend to take things a bit literally, especially ad copy, presuming it is the intention of the advertiser to convey a message. Words matter, and all that that implies. Having read the first page of this thread, both the comments from those who have heard your devices in their systems, and then the ads that Steve posted from TAS, sent a contradictory message, in my opinion. I thought about my experience with both my system and my time hearing live music in Symphony Hall in Boston and in chamber settings. Thank you for clarifying the intent of the devices and explaining what you mean by "Total Immersion Effect."

I have been hearing what you describe in my system for quite a few years now. I specifically remember the dramatic change when I invited Jim Smith to my house to voice my system to my room. That was the beginning of my own immersion effect. I have had quite a few discussions with Jim since then about the distinction between the origin of the sound, that incredible energy, as it is produced by instruments on a stage or audio system and the sound which then busts forth into the hall or listening room. In the best circumstances and systems, this sound and energy can surround and envelope the listener. This is what I hear at the best live venues, and this is what I now hear in my system. The sound is not restricted to the plane of the speakers, and the space behind them, but rather, it moves around and fills the room. It is room filling with the listener placed within it. However, this is markedly different from the sound and experience one has when on stage surrounded by musicians making sound from all directions. That is like a movie theater experience with helicopters and bullets flying in all directions. Reproduced music in the home should be more directional with the musicians seated on stage in front of the listener or audience but still be immersive and room filling.

The analogy of a film screen is an interesting one. Like film, I "see" the musicians in front of me while sitting in my listening room. However, the sound that the instruments make is all around me, not restricted to the virtual location of the musicians, and not restricted to behind the plane of the speakers. This immersive effect is rare in a system and it is in large part what distinguishes exceptional systems from the rest. In my experience it is due mostly to speaker and listener position within the room and the quality of the recording, and to a lesser extent the quality of the gear and its low noise floor. Your new footers seem intended to improve this effect by lowering the noise floor so that the ambient hall information imbedded in the recording can be reproduced by the system and heard by the listener. I am all for that.

I happen to think that your ad copy is misleading or at least can give the wrong impression of your intentions with the product. Others have dismissed it simply as "marketing hyperbole", but frankly, I think you would be better served to more clearly describe or express what the devices are actually doing for the listener experience. Your intentions and the effect of the footers should be more clearly expressed by your marketing efforts. From everything that I have read about your racks and now these footers, I have the impression that your company and efforts are very serious. The ad copy should reflect this more accurately and not be confusing for the reader.

My posts and questions in this thread were simply an attempt to better understand what the footers are intended to do so that I could decide if I wanted to pursue an audition. Other products in the past have attempted to put the listener within the stage or the virtual scene, so to speak. I am reminded of headphones, surround sound multi channel music, and some phase distorting/manipulation devices which create a sense of "space". I was concerned with the implication that your footers would give the listener a perspective which I do not experience when listening to live music. I prefer sitting fairly close to the stage and musicians and hearing the direct sound from the instruments while also being surrounded by the reflected sounds of a good hall. This is what the best recordings and systems attempt to recreate.

I don't know what to suggest about how to advertise your new footers, but I appreciate that you want to hear feedback about your marketing. So far, I find the marketing a bit confusing compared to the written and stated objectives that you have made in this thread. I do wish you and Steve great success because if these footers do help a system move closer to that which we experience with live music, that is to be encouraged and celebrated.

Peter,
Congratulations on a beautifully written and very thoughtful comment.
Marty
 
I'm struggling with any component or tweak that promises something more radical or unique than anything else.
OTOH, I have no problem with any component or tweak that says it's great at producing the effects we all look for like transparency, cohesiveness, imaging, continuity etc.
And my journey into achieving these things has expanded my soundstage to effectively make things more immersive.
I'm just a little jaundiced with exhorbitant claims, and the claims here that these footers do things no others do, leaves me a little cold. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
There are so many parallels with the infamous MasterBuilt overcooked claims, and that one turned me right off the company.

As long as man brags of conquest, man will claim his “great
discoveries”. To try to judge the real from the false will
always be hard. In this fast growing art of “high fidelity” the
quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people.

-Paul Klipsch
 
Dan, i THINK you may be concurring with me LOL.
 
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With all due respect, I certainly hope your feet would not turn me hifi into giant headphones. I hate the "in your head" perspective... very unnatural.

Yikes! No. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to clarify this. What I meant was that buds and phones produce music in close proximity to the auditory canal. We should be able to do everything they can do in terms of intimacy and engagement by elevating the experience of large scale music reproduction.
 
Hi Joe,

If I may offer some perspective here regarding this thread and the veiled echoes of bullshit you're hearing; IMO the responses are a reaction to Steve's high levels of enthusiasm for the product and some of your replies here including a comment in this paragraph rather than the ad, if this is the one in question. I don't like the ad for other reasons but that's not my business and only replying because I think that you're genuinely asking.

View attachment 36493

david

Hi David,

Thank you for your response. I would appreciate knowing your other reasons if you want to share them........ info@criticalmasssystems.com
 
Joe, thanks for your earlier responses and also note that you write and think with clarity and sincerity and obvious depth and shouldn't certainly underestimate any of your skills in that capacity.

I also feel a bit remiss for not also pointing out clearly important observations as we focussed on just a part of the marketing strategy.

Steve mentioned early sales and without knowing your targets at all these seem to be going fantastically well so your marketing is clearly working in many ways. So you and Steve are clearly doing many things right with the campaign so far. I would imagine that Steve's online presence and connections are a big part of that. Also CMS has a strong and (I'd have thought) growing reputation so perhaps you could play even more on the CMS brand in the ad.

Measuring ad performance and which areas of your marketing have been effective is important ongoing and I have no knowledge of Absolute Sounds target audience reach (and that of above the line marketing in general these days) but certainly the image in your ad cuts through nicely and is evocative. The balance of text to image seems good and the noise to signal ratio is fine as there is a nice balance of negative to positive space (it's not too busy) and your eye is drawn to the centre nicely which keeps the eye from wandering off so in all truth it's not until you analyse the tag or positioning line that anything seems worth rethinking anyway.

Us audiophiles do love to think the cr*p out of everything so concept positioning in the ad is probably fine till someone just brings up the question of centre stage... what does it actually mean in terms of experience? Then because we also as a group tend to overthink stuff it starts the debate which just undoes a bit of the momentum and misdirects things a bit but this is easy to recover and you already have plenty of positive momentum to help you go forwards.

In the big picture you seem to have got off to a great start with sales, if strong user feedback continues to grow as your product goes out to the marketplace and builds a broader awareness yhen you could perhaps just consider focusing on that in your marketing. If the tag lines and concept aren't exactly where you want them to be then just change them and update the ad and go forward.

In this niche market the product is largely going to likely fly or fall based on the word of mouth, user buzz and continuing feedback. Steve's presence on the forum and in our hobby are great asserts clearly. No-one doubts that Steve would only get behind a product that he is 100 per cent passionate about and this all comes through. Perhaps when you are selling something you maybe need to reflect a bit more and need to measure your words in your advocacy but truth is even consumers as owners of gear in a field where passions outrun reason all have some buy in and we are all a bit guilty of moments of oversell in championing our particularly favourite gear.

By the sounds of things from your beta users early feedback that the experience is going to be great so I would have thought this will be the thing to help you develop awareness even further now that you are moving past the initial launch.

I'd just go back to the evaluation and consider that clearly many things are going right and that maybe your concept may well just need some revision that's all. In an area where clarity, transparency and honesty are the aims with the gear that then the marketing needs to reflect the same aims. I get the feeling that honesty is all there and there is something good going on with these new footers of yours, to get a bit more clarity perhaps avoid complex ideas and just talk about feeling. How do they make you feel about listening and more importantly the music itself. If they immerse you in the music that all seems fairly clear to me and much less for everyone to argue about.

All that said most of us audiophiles would still argue under water so then a bit of total immersion might actually be the very best thing for all of us.
 
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Center Stage will be in the Potomac room with VAC at the Capitol AudioFest the 1st weekend in November. Of course, Sunday will be best, but please do come if you can and try the sweet spot. Hear for yourself……

I will be there on Friday and will be sure to check out this product. $1,200 for each of my components is a bit too much for me, but I look forward to checking them out.
 
Steve,

Once our new listening room is ready, I'd like to listen to these, as they do look intriguing!

Having been to your house, and listened to your system, a few times, I could surely hear the specific improvement you mentioned (the immersive effect), that was clearly absent before the CMS racks.

cheers,
alex
 

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