Conflicted - Boulder 866 vs. 1161 vs. Used 2060

[divertiti]

Hey gents (and ladies), I recently acquired a Boulder 1110 which is a great preamp, and I am looking to upgrade my amp and was hoping for some feedback. I have heard the 1110 driving the 1160 which was a stunning combo and I was immediately a fan of the power, control, grace and effortless articulation. 1160 is outside my budget. I have also home auditioned the 866, both as an integrated and as a power amp for the 1110. In fact the 866 is absolutely amazing on its own, I can live happily with it and save a lot of money. Alas the 1110 adds weight, dimensionality and coherence to the sound and such is our collective ailment. The 1110 + 866 as amp works incredibly well, and gives probably 85% of the 1110+1160, but as we know the last 5% is where magic happens. Sadly I haven't seen or heard the 1161, but heard the 866's amp section is closely in design, has anyone had any experience with the 1161? Another option would be to wait and pick up an used 2060. I know 2060 is highly regarded for its neutrality and control, but how would it compare to the newer gen Boulder amps in tonality and timing/flow?

I was also wondering about other options such as Luxman M-900U or Merill Audio 116, or for the price of Boulder separates, I could also shoot for the Audionet Humboldt which I haven't heard but is raved about by others. My speakers are Raidhos, and music range from electronic to jazz to classical. I don't like a soft and homogenizing sound, nor do I like cold and clinical detail. What impressed me about the Boulder is the control in all audio bands while remaining subtle and delicate. Thoughts are appreciated.

 

[chuck]

Hey gents (and ladies), I recently acquired a Boulder 1110 which is a great preamp, and I am looking to upgrade my amp and was hoping for some feedback. I have heard the 1110 driving the 1160 which was a stunning combo and I was immediately a fan of the power, control, grace and effortless articulation. 1160 is outside my budget. I have also home auditioned the 866, both as an integrated and as a power amp for the 1110. In fact the 866 is absolutely amazing on its own, I can live happily with it and save a lot of money. Alas the 1110 adds weight, dimensionality and coherence to the sound and such is our collective ailment. The 1110 + 866 as amp works incredibly well, and gives probably 85% of the 1110+1160, but as we know the last 5% is where magic happens. Sadly I haven't seen or heard the 1161, but heard the 866's amp section is closely in design, has anyone had any experience with the 1161? Another option would be to wait and pick up an used 2060. I know 2060 is highly regarded for its neutrality and control, but how would it compare to the newer gen Boulder amps in tonality and timing/flow?

I was also wondering about other options such as Luxman M-900U or Merill Audio 116, or for the price of Boulder separates, I could also shoot for the Audionet Humboldt which I haven't heard but is raved about by others. My speakers are Raidhos, and music range from electronic to jazz to classical. I don't like a soft and homogenizing sound, nor do I like cold and clinical detail. What impressed me about the Boulder is the control in all audio bands while remaining subtle and delicate. Thoughts are appreciated.

IMO buy the 1161 or the 2060 on audiogon. I also own an 1110. Knowing the 1110, I would have already ordered the 1161.

 

[divertiti]

IMO buy the 1161 or the 2060 on audiogon. I also own an 1110. Knowing the 1110, I would have already ordered the

Thanks Chuck, between the 1161 and used 2060, sounds like you would choose the 1161? Could you elaborate? I never heard the older gear, but heard people say the newer gen is a step up sonically everywhere with more control on the bottom end and more clarity with musicality to boot.

 

[chuck]

I owned the 2060 for years. It is an awesome amp. That said, I expect the 1161 (I haven't heard it) to be a better 1110 match for the reasons you stated -- it should be able to play more of what the 1110 sends it. But it is an interesting comparison. The 2060 has larger heat sinks, can use more electrical current and generate a lot more power. The 1161 has more advanced circuitry. Difficult choice with two right answers. I'm glad I don't have to make the call. Good luck!

I would call in a lifeline and email Steve at Boulder to find out how well the 1161 could drive my speakers. The 2060 will drive anything.

 

[divertiti]

I owned the 2060 for years. It is an awesome amp. That said, I expect the 1161 (I haven't heard it) to be a better 1110 match for the reasons you stated -- it should be able to play more of what the 1110 sends it. But it is an interesting comparison. The 2060 has larger heat sinks, can use more electrical current and generate a lot more power. The 1161 has more advanced circuitry. Difficult choice with two right answers. I'm glad I don't have to make the call. Good luck!

I would call in a lifeline and email Steve at Boulder to find out how well the 1161 could drive my speakers. The 2060 will drive anything.

Thanks Chuck, definitely some tough calls to be made in audio against budget and other considerations. Another thing that's attractive about the 1161 is that you don't need 4 people to lift it lol. May I ask why you ruled out using the 866? From all accounts the amp section in the 866 is close to the 1161 design with lesser parts and would be a money saver. Of course you might not have heard the 866 but I was just curious

 

[chuck]

Thanks Chuck, definitely some tough calls to be made in audio against budget and other considerations. Another thing that's attractive about the 1161 is that you don't need 4 people to lift it lol. May I ask why you ruled out using the 866? From all accounts the amp section in the 866 is close to the 1161 design with lesser parts and would be a money saver. Of course you might not have heard the 866 but I was just curious

Talking to the Boulder guys you quickly learn that parts are a very big deal. It looks like a lot of the money in the 866 is in the preamp section that you don't need. Boulder says the 1161 is a less powerful alternative that gives up nothing in terms of performance compared to the 1160. I take them at their word on that I ruled out the 866 because, based on experience, the 1110 is too good.

I had forgotten that the 1161 is the only real Boulder amp one person can move from one room to another.

 

[Cycles2]

Comparing the Boulder 1161 to a 2060 is not a fair fight. Even though it's a newer generation the 1161 delivers 150 watts into 8 ohms and the 2060 delivers 600 watts. Perhaps a fairer fight would be the 1160 to the 2060.

I have a 2060 and have never owned a pair of speakers it can't handle, including Maggie 20.7's which love power. I also have the 220 volt electrical converter plate in my 2060 so I can run it at 110v or 220v. Running it at 220v does seem to let it run a bit cooler.

I may be selling my 2060 as I'll be downsizing my home soon. Let me know if you're interested.

 

[divertiti]

Thanks again for the thoughts gents. Cycles2 I think I would much prefer a current gen since by all accounts the sound has improved quite a bit, but I have read that 2060 is quite the impressive amp. I'm seriously considering the 1160 now, which is more money than the 1161, but leaning towards buying once and buying right. I just pray I won't run into an opportunity to listen to the 2160...

 

[divertiti]

Talking to the Boulder guys you quickly learn that parts are a very big deal. It looks like a lot of the money in the 866 is in the preamp section that you don't need. Boulder says the 1161 is a less powerful alternative that gives up nothing in terms of performance compared to the 1160. I take them at their word on that I ruled out the 866 because, based on experience, the 1110 is too good.

I had forgotten that the 1161 is the only real Boulder amp one person can move from one room to another.

Chuck, out of curiosity, why did you choose 1110 over 2110 to power your 3060? Did you audition both and decide?

 

[chuck]

Chuck, out of curiosity, why did you choose 1110 over 2110 to power your 3060? Did you audition both and decide?

I wanted the simplicity of a single box if it could be done without compromising sound quality too much. I went to the Boulder factory and listened to the 1110, 2110 and 3010. The 2110 and 3010 are better sounding, make no mistake. But the 1110 was so close the decision was obvious. I liked the form and user interface of the 1110 better than the other two, and better than the many other preamps I heard at various shows. The 1110 has 5 XLR inputs, 3 XLR outputs, and an easily implemented HT bypass. It was the only pre that did it all. It runs two systems and is on 24/7. As you said, it is a great pre.

 

[divertiti]

I wanted the simplicity of a single box if it could be done without compromising sound quality too much. I went to the Boulder factory and listened to the 1110, 2110 and 3010. The 2110 and 3010 are better sounding, make no mistake. But the 1110 was so close the decision was obvious. I liked the form and user interface of the 1110 better than the other two, and better than the many other preamps I heard at various shows. The 1110 has 5 XLR inputs, 3 XLR outputs, and an easily implemented HT bypass. It was the only pre that did it all. It runs two systems and is on 24/7. As you said, it is a great pre.

It's pretty cool that you got to listen to all 3 back to back at the factory and really decide with your own ears. As a 1110 owner that's good to hear. It is curious though that when I spoke to Boulder on the phone and they told me that the jump between 1110 and 2110 is the largest jump in quality in their whole line-up. Seems like it is a personal preference as you have found moving up on the amp made more of a difference.

 

[JeffL]

Thanks Chuck, between the 1161 and used 2060, sounds like you would choose the 1161? Could you elaborate? I never heard the older gear, but heard people say the newer gen is a step up sonically everywhere with more control on the bottom end and more clarity with musicality to boot.

Agree with this on basis of using an 860 with a 1010, now traded in for a 1110 + 1160. The improvement was immediately noticeable straight out of the box. The combination of power, clarity and delicacy is unbelievable.

 

[divertiti]

Agree with this on basis of using an 860 with a 1010, now traded in for a 1110 + 1160. The improvement was immediately noticeable straight out of the box. The combination of power, clarity and delicacy is unbelievable.

Those are the exact attributes I find with that combo, and together the notes have this "lit from within" quality that I previously only heard in tube amps, but not bloomy, extremely controlled. What's in the rest of your system and what speakers are you driving?

 

[chuck]

It's pretty cool that you got to listen to all 3 back to back at the factory and really decide with your own ears. As a 1110 owner that's good to hear. It is curious though that when I spoke to Boulder on the phone and they told me that the jump between 1110 and 2110 is the largest jump in quality in their whole line-up. Seems like it is a personal preference as you have found moving up on the amp made more of a difference.

Kinda funny. I can understand why they said that but misses the point. My question was could a single box SS pre work with the 3060/YGXV, could it perform at a high enough level that it would sound at least as good as my ARC Ref40 tube two chassis pre. Can a single box SS pre make the cut? The 1110 does, easily.

Just for fun, I have considered putting the Ref40 back in, only to be reminded why I don't like two chassis preamps. Maybe after the pandemic . . .

 

[JeffL]

Speakers are Triangle Magellan Cellos (see review at https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/524-triangle-magellan-cello-loudspeakers ) - superb especially with solo voices and small group jazz or chamber music; Marantz SA10 SACD player;
Linn LP12/Ittok LVII/Clearaudio Titanium/Boulder 508 phono-pre. Also have a Blusound Vault 2 for CD backup and hi-res streaming from Roon/Qobuz/Tidal, playing through the Marantz DAC section. Big plus is it is an all-balanced system, and one result of that is the absolutely black silence from which the music emerges: no hum or hiss even from close up to speakers and using the MC cartridge. Just music! Have fun.

 

[divertiti]

Kinda funny. I can understand why they said that but misses the point. My question was could a single box SS pre work with the 3060/YGXV, could it perform at a high enough level that it would sound at least as good as my ARC Ref40 tube two chassis pre. Can a single box SS pre make the cut? The 1110 does, easily.

Just for fun, I have considered putting the Ref40 back in, only to be reminded why I don't like two chassis preamps. Maybe after the pandemic . . .

Understood, the single chassis requirement would surely rule out the big boys, still great to hear that the 1110 is close in performance even in their reference room. It's a kindness to my wallet lol. I think I would look to my source or speakers as the next step.

Speakers are Triangle Magellan Cellos (see review at https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/524-triangle-magellan-cello-loudspeakers ) - superb especially with solo voices and small group jazz or chamber music; Marantz SA10 SACD player;
Linn LP12/Ittok LVII/Clearaudio Titanium/Boulder 508 phono-pre. Also have a Blusound Vault 2 for CD backup and hi-res streaming from Roon/Qobuz/Tidal, playing through the Marantz DAC section. Big plus is it is an all-balanced system, and one result of that is the absolutely black silence from which the music emerges: no hum or hiss even from close up to speakers and using the MC cartridge. Just music! Have fun.

Great system, looks like it's uniquely suited for your musical taste which is a sign of experience.

 

[chuck]

Understood, the single chassis requirement would surely rule out the big boys, still great to hear that the 1110 is close in performance even in their reference room. It's a kindness to my wallet lol. I think I would look to my source or speakers as the next step.

Speakers. I look at the speakers and amp as 80% of the system. The pre and source don't have nearly as much impact.

 

[divertiti]

Speakers. I look at the speakers and amp as 80% of the system. The pre and source don't have nearly as much impact.

I hear you. I have a pair of Raidhos and have a pair of Spendor D9.2 coming, apparently they are amazing performers with a magical mid-range. Longer term I have my eyes on Wilson or Rockport which both I auditioned and liked.

 

[chuck]

A Boulder 1160 suggests including full range speakers with dual binding posts for consideration. The amp allows bi-wiring for a reason.