Coronavirus ...

[morricab]

Be brave and call out the BS. You are a scientist and this clearly does not pass the smell test.

I basically agree with you...but if I was over 70 and a diabetic or had a respiratory condition I would be concerned...

 

[wisnon]

of course...but that is always the case with immunosuppressed people or people with concomitant maladies.
my issue is that this is overblown and other real treats are ignored...for example the strain of flu this year is above average in virulence and there are deadly bacteria out there resistant to all known antibiotics.

the former head of the dutch ruling party died of such an infection in his leg late last year...coming from a cut.
As to A-R TB...i shudder to think....

 

[NorthStar]

Norm, I appreciate your optimism in these dire times, the unknown, uncharted territories of the 21st Century...year 2020. All the health world scientists, virus epidemic experts are sticking to what's best for the world's population...inform us of the truth. And we can witness it for ourselves. The phase for us is preparation, intervention, prevention, containment.

1918 was a different era with different circumstances and a different potency level virus.

Now is different all across the board. Stay calm, vigilant, be aware, prepare, don't panic one way or another and keep your hands clean by washing them frequently...that would remove any contamination you might have got in contact with, and help you sleep better @ night.
That's smart prevention and psychologic comfort zone, to do the right positive thing with the right positive attitude.

No bull.

 

[wisnon]

I work in Pharma, so am far from ignorant here. I never said not to take normal and smart precautions. Please read my message carefully.

Please bookmark...I CALL ABSLUTE BS on what is one of the greatest con jobs I have ever seen. Con jobs are overlaid on some basis in reality. However, the overhype and competing agendas are there for all who want to see.

BTW, The experts I KNOW personally are all saying its overblown.

I take you back to the statement made by WHO head almost a month ago, Feb 12.. Up to 45m could die from this Covid19 THIS year!!!!!

Already the excuses are starting to filter out and amnesia is setting in as egg in in the faces of so many hypemeisters. Bunch of charlatans!

 

[wisnon]

Not Optimism...sensible and basic interpretation of the data presented.I am at a loss how anybody buys the bovine defecation they are pushing... Really!

 

[NorthStar]

Norm, just get the right information from reliable sources; scientific health websites, your government, WHO, and stay away from Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. We'll all get through this together. It won't last forever; a vaccine is coming up in about twelve to eighteen months. They're working on it real hard right now as we speak. There are procedures to follow in time because they don't want to release a vaccine to the public if it kills more people. It has to be safe, without deadly side effects...it's normal, it's logical, it's wise, it is what it is.

I understand very well what some people with an optimistic attitude try to convey; it's their job.
Just like the health scientists have a job to do too; they'll get the job done with all our help and the governements of the world's help.

As citizens of Earth we do our best to contain Coronavirus before it expands over our heads and bodies. It's our new job now, and the paycheck, the salary we all get is life. There is no higher paid job than that on Earth, none. People they might buy gold, diamonds, expensive cars, mansions, jewelry, watches, audio gear, etc., it don't mean a thing if they're poor or rich; Coronavirus doesn't distinguish between classes.

 

[wisnon]

Stay far from any such vaccine! If you know the timescale for safe drug development, you would understand.
Switzerland (Govt) bought tons of Tamiflu years ago for $$$$ due to a previous dud "pandemic" and now has to dump all that expired stock.

I don't use any social media for info on this. Recall I said I work in Pharma? Don't fall for the obvious con. If you fall for everything, you stand for nothing.

Gone by Summer...mark my words. Past is prologue!

 

[NorthStar]

I know what you said, I can read...you work in Pharma, so was my Mom.

So far some countries are doing better than others; Antarctica and Alaska for example.
• https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Norm, I don't know much about life, even less about death (never been there and back).
I simply started a thread about a new virus that originated from China and now is in 84 countries/regions of the world in just two months. And I didn't start this thread in December 31, 2019 because @ that time I had no clue, zero.
I started this thread roughly two weeks after I was more aware that it was something very serious; January 25, 2020.
But I remember very well reading with great attention from roughly January 10, 2020.
Then after two weeks I decided to create this informative thread on the Medical News We Can Use of the What's Best Forum section.

I would love to post in the Movies threads, the Music threads, the Photography threads, the Car threads (I did recently in that last one), etc., ... it's just that with this Coronavirus and the stock markets and the global economy and the world's health I'm into a different state of mind right now, in touch with more important stuff for the time being and I don't know what the long term future has in reserve for the world. Near-term it doesn't look "rosy" ... meaning pretty and happy and healthy.

I would describe myself as down-to-earth, practical, realistic, a good observator and reader and learner...plus much more and not much @ all. I'm social.

 

[NorthStar]

And that's not me ...

 

[Barry2013]

The economic consequences of Covid 19 are serious not because it is a particularly lethal virus, but because of the huge increase in global trade with China in particular. I t has had the worst outbreak to date and the resultant closure of so many of its factories and the disruption of international supply chains is causing huge problems.
They are distinct from the actual health threat which is serious and will continue for some time yet, but I agree that it should not be overestimated and is nowhere near the level of the Spanish flu epidemic.
Here in the UK we now have 85 confirmed cases, most of which can be traced back to Northern Italy. There have,however, been 3 cases which have no apparent link to other parts of the world and thus of greater concern. The expectation is that the number of cases will increase but there is no real panic and the Govt has published a sensible strategy to deal with the out break. no blanket closures of schools,banning of large scale events etc yet but an option if needed.
Here in Europe we have free health care of generally good quality which is coping pretty well although Italy is under a lot of pressure. The death rate there is down to the large numbers of old people there.
The question in my mind is how will America with its system of private health care cope in the event of a serious outbreak in its population?

 

[NorthStar]

I find it tough right now that major news outlets are asking to subscribe in order to read important information on Coronavirus. Other news are quite out-of-this-world in regards to some people blaming specific people and group of people for the situation right now; it is simply absurd and inconceivable. That makes me terribly sick in my head and stomach and very sad.

I don't remember reading world news with this tone of severity in my lifetime.
This puts in perspective what priorities are in the important essence of the people's well being.
All the unimportant details vanished to let reality precedes.

I am changing, the world is changing ...

"Protect yourself and your community from coronavirus with common sense precautions: wash your hands, stay home when sick and listen to the @CDCgov and local health authorities”. “Save the masks for health care workers. Let’s stay calm, listen to the experts, and follow the science.”

 

[Blackmorec]

Stay far from any such vaccine! If you know the timescale for safe drug development, you would understand.
Switzerland (Govt) bought tons of Tamiflu years ago for $$$$ due to a previous dud "pandemic" and now has to dump all that expired stock.

I don't use any social media for info on this. Recall I said I work in Pharma? Don't fall for the obvious con. If you fall for everything, you stand for nothing.

Gone by Summer...mark my words. Past is prologue!

The person who supports IT infrastructure or tends the grounds at J&J or GSK work in the Pharma Industry. Doesn’t mean they know diddly squat about Corona Virus.

Your claims appear to be based on unfounded optimism and what appears to be a fair degree of unconscious ignorance i.e you don’t know what you don’t know. What we do know is that this virus spreads very rapidly, seems to infect in the absence of symptoms, has the potential to overwhelm a country’s health care facilities and cause huge disruption in any number of industries. You get one chance to control an epidemic.....right at the start, when you have enough resources to isolate infected individuals and trace their contacts. Once you overwhelm those resources, which can happen in very short order, you’re down to managing the consequences.
Calling this a con is, in my view a. Irresponsible and b. Based on ignorance or misplaced optimism. This virus, mishandled has the attributes to utterly change the way we live, where attending concerts, sporting events or travelling on holiday becomes a threat rather than a pleasure. The problem with this virus are the multitude of transmission vectors in our everyday life, from banknotes to touchscreen ticket sales at almost every railway station and airport.

As to your point about the Swiss and Tamiflu. What would you prefer....that your Government do nothing and have no stocks of medication to treat a potential outbreak?. When a Government lays in stocks of anti-virals, its in the sincere hope that they won’t be needed. That’s the best outcome! Not one to scoff at in hindsight.

Right now people need to be galvanised to take the right actions....thoroughly washing and disinfecting hands, not touching their face when out and about, self isolating in the event of any symptoms etc. The fastest way to get the outcome you’re hoping for is by taking all the right actions NOW! The right balance is in talking all the proper precautions now before it becomes a pandemic. Not waiting until it does.
As to your point about avoiding a future vaccine. I strongly suggest you wait until we have one and evaluate the clinical trials that were conducted to assure its safety before warning people not to use it. Anything else is irresponsible
The worst thing we can be at this time is complacent. This is a really dire threat and the consequences of wrong action unconscionable.

 

[the sound of Tao]

The economic consequences of Covid 19 are serious not because it is a particularly lethal virus, but because of the huge increase in global trade with China in particular. I t has had the worst outbreak to date and the resultant closure of so many of its factories and the disruption of international supply chains is causing huge problems.
They are distinct from the actual health threat which is serious and will continue for some time yet, but I agree that it should not be overestimated and is nowhere near the level of the Spanish flu epidemic.
Here in the UK we now have 85 confirmed cases, most of which can be traced back to Northern Italy. There have,however, been 3 cases which have no apparent link to other parts of the world and thus of greater concern. The expectation is that the number of cases will increase but there is no real panic and the Govt has published a sensible strategy to deal with the out break. no blanket closures of schools,banning of large scale events etc yet but an option if needed.
Here in Europe we have free health care of generally good quality which is coping pretty well although Italy is under a lot of pressure. The death rate there is down to the large numbers of old people there.
The question in my mind is how will America with its system of private health care cope in the event of a serious outbreak in its population?

A recent outbreak in an aged care facility in Australia is a sobering moment. Aged care systems are areas of great vulnerability obviously given the virus impact on the over 70’s. I am glad both my parents are in private homes away from these institutions.

Locally general practitioner doctors and dentists are reporting just a few weeks supply of face masks left. There are dentists considering closing down operations.

The current health strategy is that anyone feeling flu like symptoms report straight to emergency departments of hospitals to avoid general practitioner doctors offices completely. Basic supplies of things like hand wash as well as face masks are at critical levels.

Given the .2 per cent reduction in economic growth impact in Australia due to the recent wild fires here an additional .5 per cent reduction in economic activity due to Covid threatens to push Australia into recession for the first time in 30 years.

 

[wisnon]

The person who supports IT infrastructure or tends the grounds at J&J or GSK work in the Pharma Industry. Doesn’t mean they know diddly squat about Corona Virus.

Your claims appear to be based on unfounded optimism and what appears to be a fair degree of unconscious ignorance i.e you don’t know what you don’t know. What we do know is that this virus spreads very rapidly, seems to infect in the absence of symptoms, has the potential to overwhelm a country’s health care facilities and cause huge disruption in any number of industries. You get one chance to control an epidemic.....right at the start, when you have enough resources to isolate infected individuals and trace their contacts. Once you overwhelm those resources, which can happen in very short order, you’re down to managing the consequences.
Calling this a con is, in my view a. Irresponsible and b. Based on ignorance or misplaced optimism. This virus, mishandled has the attributes to utterly change the way we live, where attending concerts, sporting events or travelling on holiday becomes a threat rather than a pleasure. The problem with this virus are the multitude of transmission vectors in our everyday life, from banknotes to touchscreen ticket sales at almost every railway station and airport.

As to your point about the Swiss and Tamiflu. What would you prefer....that your Government do nothing and have no stocks of medication to treat a potential outbreak?. When a Government lays in stocks of anti-virals, its in the sincere hope that they won’t be needed. That’s the best outcome! Not one to scoff at in hindsight.

Right now people need to be galvanised to take the right actions....thoroughly washing and disinfecting hands, not touching their face when out and about, self isolating in the event of any symptoms etc. The fastest way to get the outcome you’re hoping for is by taking all the right actions NOW! The right balance is in talking all the proper precautions now before it becomes a pandemic. Not waiting until it does.
As to your point about avoiding a future vaccine. I strongly suggest you wait until we have one and evaluate the clinical trials that were conducted to assure its safety before warning people not to use it. Anything else is irresponsible
The worst thing we can be at this time is complacent. This is a really dire threat and the consequences of wrong action unconscionable.

Summer is a few months away. We shall all see by then. Arguments over...just sit back relax and enjoy the non event. It seems lots of people have problems interpreting data....

 

[wisnon]

And that's not me ...

This is proof of people overreacting to fear inducements. Has nothing to do with the facts of the virus.

i notice everyone steers clear of the scientific article on the Spanish "Flu".

Time will reveal all...

 

[Blackmorec]

Which scientific article on Spanish Flu?

 

[wisnon]

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/14/8/07-1313_article
Abstract
Deaths during the 1918–19 influenza pandemic have been attributed to a hypervirulent influenza strain. Hence, preparations for the next pandemic focus almost exclusively on vaccine prevention and antiviral treatment for infections with a novel influenza strain. However, we hypothesize that infections with the pandemic strain generally caused self-limited (rarely fatal) illnesses that enabled colonizing strains of bacteria to produce highly lethal pneumonias. This sequential-infection hypothesis is consistent with characteristics of the 1918–19 pandemic, contemporaneous expert opinion, and current knowledge regarding the pathophysiologic effects of influenza viruses and their interactions with respiratory bacteria. This hypothesis suggests opportunities for prevention and treatment during the next pandemic (e.g., with bacterial vaccines and antimicrobial drugs), particularly if a pandemic strain–specific vaccine is unavailable or inaccessible to isolated, crowded, or medically underserved populations.

 

[Blackmorec]

Summer is a few months away. We shall all see by then. Arguments over...just sit back relax and enjoy the non event. It seems lots of people have problems interpreting data....

Why don’t you give us your well reasoned, scientific arguments to support your position. You seem very certain, so I think it would be interesting to discuss the underlying knowledge and logic.

 

[wisnon]

Message here is FEAR the bacteria! Too much focus on virus is unbalanced.

Perhaps you never heard of bacteriophages? They are viruses that feed on bacteria and there are investigations ongoing in the nascent field of Microbiome therapy whereby we could deploy these viruses to kill dangerous bacteria, especially ones resistant to antibiotics.

C-Diff is major focus now. MRSA, Klebsiella, N. Gonorrrhea, Extensively drug-resistant Salmonella typhi, etc.

Drug resistant tuberculosis
Myobacterium tuberculosis is one of the world's leading infectious diseases, causing more than 1.7 million deaths each year. It's estimated that up to 13 percent of all new tuberculosis cases are multidrug-resistant — unresponsive to two of the most potent treatments — and six percent are extensively drug-resistant, unresponsive to even more. These sufferers are more likely to get diseases or die.

TB was the number 1 killer in man up to 1900 or so.

By contrast, 80% of Covid19 infected show no or mild symptoms.
The issue is not with the virus or sensible precautions, the issue is with the disproprotionate reaction from the media and the WHO head predicting 45m deaths and all that nonsense.

People are not bashing the sensible precautions, as that is wise and justified...its all the other baggage in attandance and also all the entities with agendas piling on. As one famous uS politician said...a crisis is too valuable and asset to waste.

So please keep an open mind and listen to the voices of calm. We (the health care workers and policy makers) got this, we dont need the fear-mongering and the overreaction. It causes needless distress and DAMAGE to the lives of many. For example, you may need to rush out and buy toilet paper...not beacuse there are production or supply issues...rather because media hyped up the fear, people rush out and clean out the supermarket shelves and if you get there late...there may not be more stock for a week while you may not have enough at home. Further, offices who dont have a stockpile may have to close temporarily because they cant open without providing the basics for employees...for example. FEAR alone would have caused this needless dislocation.

 

[wisnon]

Why don’t you give us your well reasoned, scientific arguments to support your position. You seem very certain, so I think it would be interesting to discuss the underlying knowledge and logic.

I did, go back and read....though I think you have made up your mind. In that case...wait for Summer and we shall see.

Also, you cant ask for what you yourself did not provide. Echoing the fear machine does not count.

I sit here easy like Sunday morning....

 

[Blackmorec]

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/14/8/07-1313_article
Abstract
Deaths during the 1918–19 influenza pandemic have been attributed to a hypervirulent influenza strain. Hence, preparations for the next pandemic focus almost exclusively on vaccine prevention and antiviral treatment for infections with a novel influenza strain. However, we hypothesize that infections with the pandemic strain generally caused self-limited (rarely fatal) illnesses that enabled colonizing strains of bacteria to produce highly lethal pneumonias. This sequential-infection hypothesis is consistent with characteristics of the 1918–19 pandemic, contemporaneous expert opinion, and current knowledge regarding the pathophysiologic effects of influenza viruses and their interactions with respiratory bacteria. This hypothesis suggests opportunities for prevention and treatment during the next pandemic (e.g., with bacterial vaccines and antimicrobial drugs), particularly if a pandemic strain–specific vaccine is unavailable or inaccessible to isolated, crowded, or medically underserved populations.

What this paper I saying is that the majority of deaths in the Spanish flu pandemic were potentially caused by concomitant bacterial infections of the lower respitory tract. Their conclusion is that for the next pandemic the focus should be as much on control of concomitant bacterial infections as much as on anti-virals and vaccines
A good paper, no doubt and a logical recommendation.
But does it apply to Covid -19? Not really. What’s killing people with Covid-19 is lower respitory tract infection, the resultant lung damage and organ failure.....but there are several differences.
1. Bacteria aren’t involved so focussing on other bacterial treatment modalities would be futile
2. The corona virus we’re talking about IS hyper-virulent and mortality doesn’t require additional bacterial involvement....Essentially that paper is saying that the 1918-19 virus probably wasn’t as hyper-virulent as the high death rate would suggest....and some other micro-organisms were involved that together contributed to the high death rate
3. Covid-19 seems to be spreading just as quickly as the 1918-19 flu strain, but Covid-9 is very likely a lot more virulent than the 1918-19 virus as it kills with out the involvement of other microorganisms
4. We are not talking about a flu strain but rather about a Corona virus, which has very different genetic characteristics. For example its ability to infect from carriers without symptoms, its ability to remain intact and infective after long periods outside a host, its long incubation period etc.

What I take away from this is the following:
In 1918-19 a virus spread throughout the world’s population that had the ability to open up the lungs to a variety of microorganisms that killed their host
In 2020, we have a virus with the same ability to spread quickly and the capacity to cause viral pneumonia, with potentially the same outcome as 1918-19.

I fail entirely to see why you would find this paper in ANY WAY reassuring. Quite the opposite I would have thought, given that this is a new, rapidly spreading, potentially deadly virus whose characteristics we are still learning about.