DarTZeel and Mcintosh - help in picking amp

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, I noticed that Jacob mentioned in his review that his 468 amps took nearly 900 hours (going by memory here) to fully break-in!!! Is that your experience as well and are the 108 amps the same? This will certainly make auditioning a challenge as not many stockists around and then the amps must be fully run-in as well.

when I switched from the 458 monos to the 468 monos it was hard to say exactly when they stopped improving incrementally. the initial bump up from the 458's was decided, but subtle in some ways. not sure I agree with 900 hours, but maybe. more like 300-400 hours as I recall.

OTOH I do recall my initial experience in 2004 with the dart stereo 108 version A' which had a very extended break in time, maybe a month. and at first I was not sure they were for me. my friend Jonathan encouraged me to have patience, so I did......and was eventually rewarded.

what darTZeel does is about the whole first watt and refinement aspect of the music. it has to breathe freely.

 

[skinnyfla]

... I wonder if one could have a "custom made" darTZeel that`s not golden... I`m really not that much into that "color"...

 

[ashandger]

when I switched from the 458 monos to the 468 monos it was hard to say exactly when they stopped improving incrementally. the initial bump up from the 458's was decided, but subtle in some ways. not sure I agree with 900 hours, but maybe. more like 300-400 hours as I recall.

OTOH I do recall my initial experience in 2004 with the dart stereo 108 version A' which had a very extended break in time, maybe a month. and at first I was not sure they were for me. my friend Jonathan encouraged me to have patience, so I did......and was eventually rewarded.

what darTZeel does is about the whole first watt and refinement aspect of the music. it has to breathe freely.

Wonderful. Many thanks for the feedback Mike.

 

[Lagonda]

Although I know not who this forbidden person is that can't be mentioned on a public group is , I do find it interesting how on every audio forum there seems to always be people who throw out phrases such as "overpriced" yet never follow it up with the economic breakdown of what makes up the price of the component that they claim is overpriced.

I'm referencing materials, research time, labor costs, health care costs, payroll taxes, import duties, shipping costs, electricity costs, land and building cost to own/rent/maintain/pay taxes, profit to put back into the business for future operations, profit to the owners, profit to keep money tied up in spare parts and R&D, etc. etc.

I would love for once someone clinging to the life raft of labeling something with the evil "overpriced" label to be able to give us an economic breakdown of that particular company / item to actually JUSTIFY their statement rather than just hurling disparaging emotional arrows with no proof.

Otherwise it just seems like they have ro real factual argument other than a purely unfounded and unprovable emotional reaction.

I've never owned nor heard DZ, but I'd sure love to hear one some day. And heck, I can't even afford it but I'm not offended at the pricing like others seem to be. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it.

I personally don't care why equipment is overpriced, i just don't buy it. But when something is priced double or more than other similar product, or the last version of the same product, i recognize something overpriced. Pension plan, high taxes, free loans and super cheap prices to influencers and reviewers, a new mistress in Zürich, i don't care why !

 

[Lagonda]

Although I know not who this forbidden person is that can't be mentioned on a public group is , I do find it interesting how on every audio forum there seems to always be people who throw out phrases such as "overpriced" yet never follow it up with the economic breakdown of what makes up the price of the component that they claim is overpriced.

I'm referencing materials, research time, labor costs, health care costs, payroll taxes, import duties, shipping costs, electricity costs, land and building cost to own/rent/maintain/pay taxes, profit to put back into the business for future operations, profit to the owners, profit to keep money tied up in spare parts and R&D, etc. etc.

I would love for once someone clinging to the life raft of labeling something with the evil "overpriced" label to be able to give us an economic breakdown of that particular company / item to actually JUSTIFY their statement rather than just hurling disparaging emotional arrows with no proof.

Otherwise it just seems like they have ro real factual argument other than a purely unfounded and unprovable emotional reaction.

I've never owned nor heard DZ, but I'd sure love to hear one some day. And heck, I can't even afford it but I'm not offended at the pricing like others seem to be. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it.

And that was one of your first post on WBF ? In defense of high prices. I wonder where in the Audio food chain you really belong. The future will tell ! I expect a lot of positive statement about DZ in the future !

 

[Lagonda]

... I wonder if one could have a "custom made" darTZeel that`s not golden... I`m really not that much into that "color"...

I think you can order them in all black also. Don't ask me where i heard that. Maybe Fremers promo tour to Switzerland, where he also visit the neighboring machine shop and makes it look like it is part of the "factory" !

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I think you can order them in all black also. Don't ask me where i heard that. Maybe Fremers promo tour to Switzerland, where he also visit the neighboring machine shop and makes it look like it is part of the "factory" !

you might be right. I've seen the big mono blocks in a black/silver anodized combination (at least one set was built that way), it did not work to my eyes. and I'm not in love with the Ironman red/gold.

maybe if the all black, or black and silver, had a more chrome or reflective part then it might work.

 

[Synaxis]

And that was one of your first post on WBF ? In defense of high prices. I wonder where in the Audio food chain you really belong. The future will tell ! I expect a lot of positive statement about DZ in the future !

So you're unable to answer my post (not my first one on WBF as you falsely claimed) so you're deflecting. Then you make personal attacks about supposing to know I am somehow here in defense of a brand I've never owned, never heard and I can't afford even though it's not my first post. Got it - you're one of those people.

Reading over your posts I think it's time to figure out how to block my first person on this forum. I'm not here to argue with some stranger who means nothing on a forum. That's such a waste of energy in life.

 

[Lagonda]

So you're unable to answer my post (not my first one on WBF as you falsely claimed) so you're deflecting. Then you make personal attacks about supposing to know I am somehow here in defense of a brand I've never owned, never heard and I can't afford even though it's not my first post. Got it - you're one of those people.

Reading over your posts you seem soooooo bitter, angry and - jealous of others. I think it's time to figure out how to block my first person on this forum. I'm not here to argue with some stranger who means nothing on a forum. That's such a waste of energy in life.

I wrote " one of your first posts", you have a total of 8 under your belt ! Bitter, angry, jealous, you forgot" old", yes sir you have me pegged ! Block away please, i doubt you will be around in a few months anyway

 

[redandgold]

Hey lagonda, please calm down.

 

[redandgold]

... I wonder if one could have a "custom made" darTZeel that`s not golden... I`m really not that much into that "color"...

I had seen once a NHB-108 in silver/black in the internet and my former dealer told it is an exception by demand.

I suppose Hervé Delétraz don‘t want to make a mass product and differentiation is also about colour. You love it or you leave it.

 

[Rumpole]

you can if you are sufficiently motivated to know.........you can buy the competitor you are interested in, then for good measure borrow another competitor and spend 4 months comparing 3 high level sets of amplifiers in your system. just put your money where your mouth is. do the friggin work.

@Mike Lavigne - You convinced me - I'm waiting on the delivery of a used darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp (original model) and NHB 108 Model 2.
I will initially be using Audience AU24 BNC interconnects and stock power cables. I don't have a turntable - is there a large enough difference in the linestage of the new model NHB-18NS preamp that I should send it in for an upgrade?

The rest of my system is PBD MPS-X and MPS-8, and YG Hailey 2.2 speakers. From the manual, I don't think the PBD MPS-8 has BNC outputs, so I have the option of RCA or XLR from the DAC to the preamp. My budget is not unlimited, so my next upgrade would be either the preamp or the YG to version 3, probably not both.

 

[Ron Resnick]

@Mike Lavigne - You convinced me - I'm waiting on the delivery of a used darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp (original model) and NHB 108 Model 2.

Congratulations!

 

[Zeotrope]

I had seen once a NHB-108 in silver/black in the internet and my former dealer told it is an exception by demand.

I suppose Hervé Delétraz don‘t want to make a mass product and differentiation is also about colour. You love it or you leave it.

That’s probably fake. There are tons of fake DartZeel products online for some reason. I highly doubt Hervé ever sold amps in a different color.

 

[Zeotrope]

@Mike Lavigne - You convinced me - I'm waiting on the delivery of a used darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp (original model) and NHB 108 Model 2.
I will initially be using Audience AU24 BNC interconnects and stock power cables. I don't have a turntable - is there a large enough difference in the linestage of the new model NHB-18NS preamp that I should send it in for an upgrade?

The rest of my system is PBD MPS-X and MPS-8, and YG Hailey 2.2 speakers. From the manual, I don't think the PBD MPS-8 has BNC outputs, so I have the option of RCA or XLR from the DAC to the preamp. My budget is not unlimited, so my next upgrade would be either the preamp or the YG to version 3, probably not both.

Congratulations!
Unless you have long >3m runs, RCA will sound better, for the preamp inputs.
Fremer compared the phono preamps of the model one and model two a while back. Model two is certainly better; but it’s hard to comment on how much. There are other benefits in the Model two update.