Dartzeel Preamp Hiss

[Elliot G.]

Not yet. I am hoping too but i sometimes worry the CH path is long and tortuous and i will end up with 16 chassis! It is certainly on my short list, thanks.

just because its there does not mean you need to buy it. The items I suggested are what you need to hear. There is only want after that not need.

 

[howiebrou]

just because its there does not mean you need to buy it. The items I suggested are what you need to hear. There is only want after that not need.

Agreed. My C1 is looking lonely, pining for an X1...but the fact that it is there does tempt the devil within oneself.

 

[Elliot G.]

Agreed. My C1 is looking lonely, pining for an X1...but the fact that it is there does tempt the devil within oneself.

and it all works flawlessly together, I know that is not what audiophiles like since there is nothing to bitch at LOL

 

[howiebrou]

and it all works flawlessly together, I know that is not what audiophiles like since there is nothing to bitch at LOL

Au contraire with me. I hate it when something is problematic. I have returned Mac and Metronome gear before. My wife thinks i am prone to getting lemons Luckily my CH has performed flawlessly so far.

 

[Elliot G.]

Au contraire with me. I hate it when something is problematic. I have returned Mac and Metronome gear before. My wife thinks i am prone to getting lemons Luckily my CH has performed flawlessly so far.

well then I don't understand why you aren't looking at it. There stuff works great and it sounds great too.

 

[howiebrou]

well then I don't understand why you aren't looking at it. There stuff works great and it sounds great too.

I will do. Just a question of availability. Not everyone will lend you stuff to demonstrate at home alas.

 

[dan31]

Balanced amps like that balanced input from the line stage, no surprise. Plenty use single ended preamps into balanced amps, several high end systems here on WBF do this.

The Trinity has well matched components that lead to it's precision and high cost. If you want to try a quiet preamp at a lower cost you could consider the Benchmark preamp.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/products/products/benchmark-la4-line-amplifier

Enjoy your search.

 

[Elliot G.]

I will do. Just a question of availability. Not everyone will lend you stuff to demonstrate at home alas.

that I understand and CH is heavy and does require someone who knows it to make sure it is set up properly

 

[asiufy]

Does anyone actually use the 50ohm BNC on the new one or is balanced the way to go now? I thought the 50hm was a hark back to Playback designs but no longer competitive?

50 Ohm "Zeel" links are to be used with the darTZeel amps, and other compatible devices, like the Playback Designs DACs and your CH Precision C1.

If you don't have a darTZeel amp, and specially if you're using an 18NS mk1, you should be using the RCA connection to your amp. Of course, if your amp doesn't have RCA, or that's not its best connection, then you're under performing from the start.

Before going with a different preamp, I'd try the 18NS + 108 combo first, using the Zeel link between them.

 

[gian60]

I have a speaker 98 dB and with my CH the system is completely silence
Adding then Gobel cable silence is absolute

 

[gian60]

Howie
Wayt end of the year new CH L 10
I think you forget the pre for next years

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Does anyone actually use the 50ohm BNC on the new one or is balanced the way to go now? I thought the 50hm was a hark back to Playback designs but no longer competitive?

my dart pre (version 2) is dead quiet.

and i do use the 50 ohm 'zeel' cables (Evolution Acoustic) between my pre and 458 amps.

and just FYI; the 50 ohm interface on the Playback Designs MPS-5 was never properly implemented and so did not deliver the 'zeel' advantage as it should have (not that it sounded bad).

to my ears the 50 ohm 'zeel' interface provides a competitive advantage over any other interconnect geometry. and i listen to quiet passages on large scale music as a steady diet....digital, vinyl and tape. my system that uses 100% 'zeel' interfaces always has a super low noise floor.

i also have active (Taiko Tana) isolation under my whole signal path, Tripoint Gounding on the whole signal path, and the Equi=tech 10kva power grid isolation transformer. so any gear noise would be quite easy to hear.

 

[adyc]

I was late to the thread. I owned this preamp before. I can confirm the preamp is noisy using all outputs. It is not my sample. It is also confirmed by my dealer. All the units my dealer have are noisy as you have described. Dartzeel may have done some revisions to cause this noise as Mike’s unit is quiet.

 

[asiufy]

I've had an 18NS for years, never had any issue with noise, with the 108 or with a myriad of amplifiers I've used.
Matter of fact, I've tried hard to find a quieter phono stage than the one built into the 18NS, and couldn't. Tried everything from tubes to 2-box statement pieces from US manufacturers. Every single was one noisier than the 18NS.
I've also had other preamps for comparisons, including others with internal phonos, and nothing bettered the 18NS overall, in my system, at the time.

 

[adyc]

I've had an 18NS for years, never had any issue with noise, with the 108 or with a myriad of amplifiers I've used.
Matter of fact, I've tried hard to find a quieter phono stage than the one built into the 18NS, and couldn't. Tried everything from tubes to 2-box statement pieces from US manufacturers. Every single was one noisier than the 18NS.
I've also had other preamps for comparisons, including others with internal phonos, and nothing bettered the 18NS overall, in my system, at the time.

That’s why I suspect the latest versions have some issues. All the units my dealer have are of manufacturing date from 2018.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I was late to the thread. I owned this preamp before. I can confirm the preamp is noisy using all outputs. It is not my sample. It is also confirmed by my dealer. All the units my dealer have are noisy as you have described. Dartzeel may have done some revisions to cause this noise as Mike’s unit is quiet.

interesting feedback. no doubt credible. and i suspect my unit operates the same as these others.

so what gives here?

of course; my unit is in my system. that matters. and hearing into the noise floor musically is a different thing than zero sound. some amps have ultra low noise, and they strip the music of some of it's life. so low noise is not everything.

in my system i did compare my dart pre to the passive preamp in my MSB Select II, which is known for being really quiet. basically i simply moved my interconnects from the dart pre to directly into the MSB, lived with it, then moved them back.

it was quieter, more authoritative and more dynamic through the dart pre......although i could have been happy direct with the MSB passive output.

i did own the Trinity dac back a few years ago. it was very quiet and interestingly had a SMPS. i sold it before i got my MSB Select II......but to my ears it never had the continuousness or organic type sound of the MSB....or my darts either.

 

[adyc]

interesting feedback. no doubt credible. and i suspect my unit operates the same as these others.

so what gives here?

of course; my unit is in my system. that matters. and hearing into the noise floor musically is a different thing than zero sound. some amps have ultra low noise, and they strip the music of some of it's life. so low noise is not everything.

in my system i did compare my dart pre to the passive preamp in my MSB Select II, which is known for being really quiet. basically i simply moved my interconnects from the dart pre to directly into the MSB, lived with it, then moved them back.

it was quieter, more authoritative and more dynamic through the dart pre......although i could have been happy direct with the MSB passive output.

i did own the Trinity dac back a few years ago. it was very quiet and interestingly had a SMPS. i sold it before i got my MSB Select II......but to my ears it never had the continuousness or organic type sound of the MSB....or my darts either.

I don’t think your unit behaved the same as my unit I once owned before. I have no reasons to doubt your unit is quiet. It is the hiss that is very audible as described by OP. That’s why I suspect current batch maybe different to previous versions.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I don’t think your unit behaved the same as my unit I once owned before. I have no reasons to doubt your unit is quiet. It is the hiss that is very audible as described by OP. That’s why I suspect current batch maybe different to previous versions.

thanks.

you are probably right if the noise was that obvious. never heard that myself from any dart pre.

 

[microstrip]

I've had an 18NS for years, never had any issue with noise, with the 108 or with a myriad of amplifiers I've used.
Matter of fact, I've tried hard to find a quieter phono stage than the one built into the 18NS, and couldn't. Tried everything from tubes to 2-box statement pieces from US manufacturers. Every single was one noisier than the 18NS.
I've also had other preamps for comparisons, including others with internal phonos, and nothing bettered the 18NS overall, in my system, at the time.

No one seems to be referring to phono noise, just to hiss caused by the output stage with some particular systems. There is nothing mysterious or difficult to understand - it was referred in the measurement section of the original 18NS in Stereophile. Unfortunately DartZeel did not document the differences between the many revisions - a very tricky situation for buyers of older units in the second hand market.

Some high-end preamplifiers match some systems better than others - there is not such thing as an universal better piece of electronics. It is great to have opinions of system owners on which match which in WBF.

 

[asiufy]

I used the phono in my example as that's usually the trickiest, most noise-prone part. And through the 18NS, phono was dead quiet, like the other inputs.
I do agree there's no universal "better". We go through the options, and naturally pick our winners, within each person' set of performance parameters.