DaveC's RMAF 2016 Best In Show: Austin Acoustic

[Mike Lavigne]

One more thing: you want to do a manufacturer a favor? Do NOT ask them to play your music! They have selected music that they think sounds best and would welcome the most number of people. I almost walked out while putting up with the customer CD that he had insisted on playing tack after track, while he was tapping his toe. It was not music with wide appeal and certainly not something of high fidelity.

I am very keen on knowing at all times that that this is a place of business for them. And that interfering with a demo should be done carefully. I for example used my CD when I would ask a manufacturer if they had something with bass and they did not, and asked me if I did. And even then, I made sure it was music that had wide appeal. Indeed, I got a lot of compliments on the CD I used (which was from Philip by the way).

These suites are not science experiments for people who are not interested in buying the equipment.

This is what I do to help the small companies there.

well....no. one main reason we go to shows is to be exposed to new music. lots of that is stuff people carry around and share. and lots of that is new exciting tracks others have not heard. mostly I get asked whether I brought something I want to hear. of course, lots of these rooms are manned by people who I know or know me. so that varies from one room to another.

are there people who are not 'self aware' of whether their music has some appeal to others? of course.

but I would gladly suffer a little than filter the new music.

my perspective is simply to be observant whether the music you carry around gets a positive reaction. if it does not.......then leave it in your pocket or bag. it won't take long to find out.

sure; there are rooms and manufacturers who refuse to play visitors music. and I respect that. but in general keep the 'new' music flowing....and bring something new to share. we all benefit then.

so many times the rooms that play the coolest music get the most attention. that can be the room person or a visitor.

 

[microstrip]

(...) sure; there are rooms and manufacturers who refuse to play visitors music. and I respect that. but in general keep the 'new' music flowing....and bring something new to share. we all benefit then.

During shows most manufacturers will only allow visitor music after hours, in closed door sessions. IMHO it only shows they are experienced professionals. In the short time they have to tune their systems they pick recordings that they consider should show the best of their systems - why risking putting a recording that can create a negative impression in their potential customers during the five minutes they stay in the room?

They do not spend their money and time to amuse and entertain us, but mainly to sell their products!

 

[bonzo75]

In Munich I get to play my L.P./CDs in most systems that i want to. In the UK as well. There are some who do standardized demos, but very few.

 

[BobShermanEsq]

Amir, lol... me be more "professional"... the irony!

Yes... Dave please be more professional!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

During shows most manufacturers will only allow visitor music after hours, in closed door sessions. IMHO it only shows they are experienced professionals. In the short time they have to tune their systems they pick recordings that they consider should show the best of their systems - why risking putting a recording that can create a negative impression in their potential customers during the five minutes they stay in the room?

They do not spend their money and time to amuse and entertain us, but mainly to sell their products!

I've never been to any European or Asian show. I use to go to CES often, but now it's been 5 years since I was there.

I've been to 11 out of 12 RMAF's and 4 of the 5 Newport Shows. one reason I go to those shows is the laid back environment. part of which is that the majority of the people running the rooms are fairly open to new music. but not all.

not sure if the vibe of the shows I've attended is the same for other shows.

I could definitely see where the Munich Show or the HK show might have a different level of openness to accept visitors music. getting a customer to connect with the product is mostly helped by the music. OTOH I can see the other side of it. it depends on what the vendor is trying to accomplish....and what sort of 'filter' they want on their product.

I do notice that the larger scale 'event type rooms' do not offer visitor music. and as I recall mostly those are 'brick and mortar' type products. over the years mostly those 'events' are not my favorite experiences at a show.

 

[BobShermanEsq]

Good morning all.

FWIW I read with great interest your review and was intrigued as I had never heard of this company and as microstrip stated I too take notice of positive reports at shows and rarely negative ones for the obvious reasons. IMO it is situations such as these that tend to make members think twice about putting up a review of any equipment for fear of sliding down the path this thread has rapidly become. I also sense and feel Daves meltdown as a result of this. Sure differences of opinion are healthy but I've said time and again that it is all in the manner in which said differences are discussed that sets the tone for the thread. I also tend to agree with Dave that casual negative comments about a system based on a perfunctory casual listen serves only to harm the manufacturer and TBH this is not what WBF is about.

So let's all take a deep breath. I'd love to hear more about this system so why don't we try to keep a positive mindset.

All very good points Steve. Yes we should try to keep a positive mindset. To be fair all vendors at shows are trying to show their products at their best and want to demonstrate good sound. The environment of the show has so many variables that as it's has been mentioned unfair to make really negative judgments. Not every product is for every person either, we all have our own favorite type of system, and presentation. Some people love pinpoint imaging, others love the dynamics and scale of large horn systems. At the end of the day I guess some of us are glass half full , glass half glass empty, or maybe some others are just totally empty. Probably no way to help them no matter what we say or do.

 

[853guy]

During shows most manufacturers will only allow visitor music after hours, in closed door sessions. IMHO it only shows they are experienced professionals. In the short time they have to tune their systems they pick recordings that they consider should show the best of their systems - why risking putting a recording that can create a negative impression in their potential customers during the five minutes they stay in the room?

I agree with your points, Micro. And I get that taste varies.

But Diana Krall again, Shelby Lynne again, Jazz at the Pawnshop again and "Hotel California" again are exactly the type of recordings that create a negative impression, to me. I'm simply not interested in hearing a system - any system - play some insipid, white-washed, adult-orientated MOR pseudo-jazz/country/pop and crank out 80's Dire Straits for something "heavier".

If only manufacturers demonstrated an open-mindedness to what they were willing to play, maybe these shows would have broader appeal than to just the 1% of the 1%.

They do not spend their money and time to amuse and entertain us, but mainly to sell their products!

And if a manufacturer in the business of selling products fails to either amuse and entertain us in the playback of pre-recorded music, one has to wonder what their utility value is... So customers can be content with how well their products measure?

 

[Al M.]

I agree with your points, Micro. And I get that taste varies.

But Diana Krall again, Shelby Lynne again, Jazz at the Pawnshop again and "Hotel California" again are exactly the type of recordings that create a negative impression, to me. I'm simply not interested in hearing a system - any system - play some insipid, white-washed, adult-orientated MOR pseudo-jazz/country/pop and crank out 80's Dire Straits for something "heavier".

If only manufacturers demonstrated an open-mindedness to what they were willing to play, maybe these shows would have broader appeal than to just the 1% of the 1%.



And if a manufacturer in the business of selling products fails to either amuse and entertain us in the playback of pre-recorded music, one has to wonder what their utility value is... So customers can be content with how well their products measure?

Well said, I totally agree.

If manufacturers cannot make their systems sound decent with any music, regardless of the difficulty of show circumstances, then they should stay home. Period. I am not interested to go to a show in order to get bored with their bland music.

 

[Al M.]

I've never read a topic thread of interest at any audio forum where there is not disagreement and some basically wasted posts, and I think that describes this thread as well. It's basically interesting, but because of the unusual (if not unique) nature of the components used, including the speakers, there are bound to be both skeptics and naysayers. When you add in the likely price of the system it can only add to that diversity of opinion.

OTOH! there seems to be one poster following his usual pattern of overwhelming other opinions and posts via the sheer column inches of his own posts...

So negative comments are not allowed? If that's the case then our hobby is a stupid travesty.

 

[YashN]

But Diana Krall again, Shelby Lynne again, Jazz at the Pawnshop again and "Hotel California" again are exactly the type of recordings that create a negative impression, to me. I'm simply not interested in hearing a system - any system - play some insipid, white-washed, adult-orientated MOR pseudo-jazz/country/pop and crank out 80's Dire Straits for something "heavier".

If only manufacturers demonstrated an open-mindedness to what they were willing to play, maybe these shows would have broader appeal than to just the 1% of the 1%.

Totally agree, and I had no problem chatting with Philip O'Hanlon and he was cool about playing some songs I brought on a USB Key (Bryan Ferry), he even followed that up with Kraftwerk.

Similarly, the good folks at MBL, after having played an acoustic song, asked someone what type of music they would like to hear, got a 'Yello' response, and promptly changed to a track by Yello.

 

[YashN]

Amir, lol... me be more "professional"... the irony!

Amirony?

 

[amirm]

FWIW I believe Dave is without question one of the most professional posters we have here.

So I am clear, you are saying that about his posts in this thread?

 

[BobShermanEsq]

So I am clear, you are saying that about his posts in this thread?

 

[sbo6]

Interesting... I wouldn't say the bass was that bad at RMAF, but it wasn't amazing like the mids and highs. The system at RMAF was horn loaded >800 Hz so the woofer was playing a lot of the midrange, I wonder if that helps with bass integration? In any case, the larger speaker looks like it's horn loaded >300 Hz or so, so there may be a larger contrast between the bass and mids vs the small system they showed at RMAF. I'd love to hear Magico horns, apparently they use similar compression drivers... Of course the Magico system is much larger.

The speakers we heard had different bass bins but the same driver (Altec?) and obviously a different room but looks like the same treatment which as Amir said, and I agree is overly damped. The >800Hz woofer xover point can help with integration (depends on phase too) but also contributes to slow bass IME. That big woofer is playing far into mid territory while also covering down ~>25hz I presume. It would be nice to hear the ones we heard at his place in a large room and not stuffed far into the front wall corners and in a well treated space.

 

[c1ferrari]

...why risking putting a recording that can create a negative impression in their potential customers during the five minutes they stay in theroom?

Along with connecting with friends, I go to shows to listen and learn. I often learn when I experience program material with which there is some familiarity.

 

[beaur]

Caveat #1; I've never heard this equipment or heard of this manufacturer before.
Caveat #2; I am predisposed to liking any system with large horns in it!

A few points about the system and the thread from afar;

Give those puppies some room to breathe!! While he may not have had much of a choice about his Show room, his dmeo systme is also in a relatively small room for the size. Those speakers would open up and sound even better with some air around them.

His demo system doesn't show a crossover, so the Show systme is either a new prototype or the crossover was necessary for the show for some reason. At that price level just build the filters into the amps like Viva does. Less boxes and better integration.

Negative comments, however expertly (or not) made should assistin the design of a system. Living in an echo chamber does no good. Any first time designer should at a minimum look around for people who can explain why they disagree. Also some people (like me) are actually attracted to products because of a negative comment. I am always either looking for something that may break the mold, or a good trainwreck. Usually both of those types geneate the conversations we are talking about.

As far as typical show music, I have yet to hear a system that while playing Diana Krall, the Eagles or any other overplayed songs as good as you have heard couldn't also do a competent job on other types of music. The presentation may not be what you prefer and the room may well be an issue but just listen to what's being played and over time you should be able to pcik out what you like\dislike about the system in just about any situation, and I absolutely hate deconstructing music as it ruins my enjoyment, at least until the second glass kicks in!!


Beau

PS Next time I am in Austin I hope I have time to stop by and listen!

 

[DaveyF]

Along with connecting with friends, I go to shows to listen and learn. I often learn when I experience program material with which there is some familiarity.

+1000 Sam.

Ladies and Gents...( are there any ladies on this forum???) when I went into the room at Newport a couple of years ago, I truly was not impressed with the sound...MY opinion...and to my taste.
I therefore see absolutely no reason why anyone cannot state that when they heard this, or that, system that they did not like the sound; on that day and in their opinion.

IMHO, Amir has EVERY right to state that he did not like the sound that he heard. Just as Dave C has EVERY right to start this thread and proclaim how wonderful this system sounds----to his ears and in his opinion!


The fact that Peter B believes(d) that he had the right to try and silence any comment on the sound of a room at a show....well that speaks volumes to his demeanor and personality...again IMHO!


As a follow-up, I happened to visit the same manufacturer's room at this years Newport Show...and this time, I was duly impressed. ( the sound was very clearly far better- and this after just a few seconds of listening!) ( BTW, I happen to believe that if a room sounds good, it sounds good after little exposure; conversely if it does not sound that great....more exposure is not going to fix that---once again, IMHO).


Talking about music at said shows..... I have rarely experienced an exhibitor who refused to play any music that I happen to bring along. Interestingly, at this years Newport, a copy of my original Merc LP... was even requested by several dealers....and a classical piece like this can easily show the weaknesses in their set-up. ( or for that matter the strengths! and some of these systems had some really nice SQ with this LP).

 

[rbbert]

It would be more appropriate all the way around if negative comments were brief and concise. After all, it's an audio show, with all that implies. Unfortunately, that was not the case in this topic

 

[beaur]

I'm guess DaveC won't like Herb Reichert's comments about the room either!

 

[treitz3]

Gentlemen, let's keep the personal comments to ourselves and stick to the topic of the thread.

Thank you in advance.

Tom