dCS Varese short review

craigr

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Dec 5, 2022
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Tonight, I had the opportunity to experience the dCS Varese. I just returned home, and although late, I feel literally compelled to post this brief "review".

And God said, “Let there be light.” And, the world was illuminated, its beauty revealed.

And dCS said, “Let there be music.” And there was, appearing from the void, filling the room with sound as natural, as pure, as the light from the sun.

The sound is simply there, it does not seem to eminate from any source, it does not have limits other than the original recording, it does not have color other than what the instruments and/or voices provide.

Is this over dramatic, “purple prose” as my literature professor use to say?

No.

When asked, “what does the Varese sound like”, the only answer is “nothing”. Just as there was nothing before God created light, there is no sound except the music itself, no speakers, no amps, no preamps, no cables, no power conditioner. Nothing. There is the primordial void, and then there is music.

The usual review discusses the sound stage, the tonal quality, the noise level, etc. There is simply nothing to discuss. None of the traditional characteristics apply, any more than one can describe a true vacuum— in nothing, there is nothing to describe.

It is so “unreal” in comparison to anything else (including the dCS Vivaldi) that the experience is actually somewhat discomforting. We are conditioned to be able to tell a recording from attending a live performance. Given even a streamed source (Qobuz in this case), you simply could not differentiate.

This included not only jazz, acoustic guitar with male and female singers, but (at my request) Poulenc’s Concerto for Organ, Tympani and Strings. The latter I have heard on many systems and none presented the organ so clearly, so realistically, such that every pipe was clearly discernible yet sounded coherent, singular. The tympani robust and reverberant, the various strings evident and complimentary. I was, without a doubt, in the venue complete with its acoustic signature, live about the 5th row orchestra.

The demo included an A/B comparison between the dCS Vivaldi and the Varese. The Vivaldi was clouded, flat, distant and indistinct in comparison, and the Vivaldi has long been a standard to which other DACS are compared.

Granted, the system used for this demonstration was worthy of the Varese: D’Agostino Momentum M400 MxV mono amplifiers, Wilson Audio Chronosonic XVX speakers, Nordost Odin cabling between the DACs and both the amps and the speakers and for the interconnects on the Vivaldi. (Note the Varese comes with its own unique cables to connect the 5 boxes.)

Most of us (certainly not I) will never be able to own such a system. But, if you get the opportunity to hear the Varese, do so. It is certainly a worthy musical experience and perhaps a religious one as well.

I want to thank Steve Kennedy at JS Audio in Bethesda, MD, for inviting me to the presentation.
 
Hello and good evening to you, @craigr. Thanks for sharing your observations with the WBF.

If you would be so kind and when you find the time, could you please describe the room (dimensions/materials/acoustic treatments, etc..) that you listened to this in? That information would be much appreciated, sir. Thanks.

Tom
 
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Oh I was afraid of this. My checkbook just passed out. I don't know if I can ever spring for this. And not sure I ever want to listen to it ...

Thanks for taking the time to write this...
 
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Tom:
The room is probably about 20 x 20. The ceiling is probably 12 maybe 15 feet. The wall behind the speakers is brick, other walls appear to be "dry wall". The walls and ceiling are very well "covered" with acoustic diffusers, some absorbers so there appears to be no "echo", "reverb", frequency accentuation or drop out. There were three large theater style chairs and behind them for the event two rows of 4 "bar" chairs (i.e. relatively elevated). There were additional speakers and equipment along the back (behind the listeners) and side walls. There was a rug covering the floor. I do not know what the floor was made of. The AC duct was exposed along the ceiling but importantly, they cooled the room beforehand and then turned off the noisy AC unit. In other words, not a particular large room, although the ceiling was high, but importantly extremely well fitted with acoustic panels.
 
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When asked, “what does the Varese sound like”, the only answer is “nothing”. Just as there was nothing before God created light, there is no sound except the music itself, no speakers, no amps, no preamps, no cables, no power conditioner. Nothing. There is the primordial void, and then there is music.

The usual review discusses the sound stage, the tonal quality, the noise level, etc. There is simply nothing to discuss. None of the traditional characteristics apply, any more than one can describe a true vacuum— in nothing, there is nothing to describe.
How does the Varese compare sonically to the Apex (which pk_LA and I compared side-by-side to about eight other DACs in his home system)?

If the Varese sounds like "nothing" how do you characterize the sound of the Apex?

We are conditioned to be able to tell a recording from attending a live performance. Given even a streamed source (Qobuz in this case), you simply could not differentiate.
I appreciate that you wrote this coming right off the excitement of hearing this demo in the evening. If in the cold and sobering light of morning you decide to withdraw this comment from the record, nobody will criticize you.
 
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@craigr , So here's the million dollar question. A lot of said the dCS Vivaldi finally was on par with our vinyl systems. Me included. I think my Vivaldi doesn't sound equal to my vinyl, rather it has its own virtues and ditto my vinyl. Therefore my music choice dictate platform. Also if the music is a digital source, I usually buy it in digital, in tape/analog source then I buy the LP.

So the question, If Varese is that much better than the Vivaldi, does it unequivocally eclipse vinyl as a source? It's a sincere question and not trying to ignite the age old digital vs vinyl debate. It's a rather sincere and specific question based on what you heard.

(trying to be nice to all, but if you haven't heard the Varese, you can't answer my question :)
 
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Jfrech:
Excellent question that indeed was discussed by the participants at the conclusion of the demonstration.

I have an AMG Viella turntable with the upgraded JT tonearm and the upgraded power supply (ie the ones found in the Forte model). My cartridge is a Strain Gauge which (analogous to the optical carts) has its own "phono amp". They are connected to my preamp by Cardas reference tonearm cable (Shunyata sadly does not make a cable with a DIN connector).

That is my reference.

As I mentioned, I asked them to play Poulnec's concerto for Organ, Tympani and Strings and the reverse side of the same album which is his Concerto for Harpsichord and Orchestra. I have the actual LP and play this frequently. Granted, the demonstration used a stream of this LP from Qobuz, but I would say that the Varese was superior to my vinyl pathway. I heard every pipe of the organ, notes that before were just part of a loud, deep "sound", grace notes in the harpsichord and strings that I had never heard before, and the tympani was more resonant.

Of course, my Sonus Faber Il. Cremonese speakers may not (is this an understatement) be equivalent to the Wilson Chronograph XVXs, and my D'agostino Momentum MxV Stereo S250 am is not the D'Agostino Momentum MxV 400 mono blocks, and this could certainly contribute to the difference. But, other participants spontaneously remarked that for the first time, they felt digital equalled or surpassed their vinyl setups.

Ron:
The Vivaldi Apex had less "presence", there was "something" (a haze, a mist) between the notes in comparison to the Varese. The soundstage was large but defined with the Vivaldi. The Varese just seemed not to have a soundstage-- the sound was just "there" as in a live performance; yes, the percussion was at the back of the orchestra, the soloist clearly in front, a singer separate from the backup singers and the accompanists, etc. But with the Vivaldi you noted such, and with the Varese you just didn't. That is what I meant by "nothing". The tonal character of the instruments and voices were better or should I say more accurate with the Varese, some might say "more realistic." There was still the slightest impression that you were listening to a recording with the Vivaldi in comparison to the Varese.

None of this is to degrade the Vivaldi which if heard NOT in reference to the Varese would be described as excellent and certainly worthy of praise. Indeed, before the Varese, you might indeed have written a similar description of the Vivaldi. But in comparison, ah, now you hear the subtle clues, the nuances.

Again, this comparison was done on a near $1M system with speakers known for their articulation and clarity and that must be taken into account.

As to the "light of day", I hope to avail myself of JS Audio's kind offer to visit again and leisurely listen to the Varese with my playlist.

In the meantime, I am thankful for what I have and to be able to enjoy music.
 
@craigr , So here's the million dollar question. A lot of said the dCS Vivaldi finally was on par with our vinyl systems. Me included. I think my Vivaldi doesn't sound equal to my vinyl, rather it has its own virtues and ditto my vinyl. Therefore my music choice dictate platform. Also if the music is a digital source, I usually buy it in digital, in tape/analog source then I buy the LP.

So the question, If Varese is that much better than the Vivaldi, does it unequivocally eclipse vinyl as a source? It's a sincere question and not trying to ignite the age old digital vs vinyl debate. It's a rather sincere and specific question based on what you heard.

(trying to be nice to all, but if you haven't heard the Varese, you can't answer my question :)
this is a dCS thread, but the question of whether a mega priced digital stack actually equals or surpasses a high quality vinyl rig has been one of my decades long hobby focuses and a subject i have considered daily for years. and i respect @craigr responding that as he describes his demo; the systems are so different hard to know, but that what he heard from Varese demo was better than the same music on vinyl in his system. a well considered response i think.

i know in my system the target for me has evolved to whether my particular 'mega-priced' digital stack is good enough that it does not (1) ever remind my it is digital, (2) my body thinks it's analog, (3) i can listen to it forever and it does not have a 'sound'....just music, and (4) not think about what it might be 'not doing'. i can go 30 days, do zero analog, and not miss it. it checks all those boxes.

yet; when i fire up the big rig vinyl and tape, we are going to a different place of musical realism.....especially with better to great pressings or tape. the media takes over and strongly changes the equation.

my point being that surpassing high level vinyl is not really necessary or essential as a justification for 'mega-priced' digital. it's more that the whole experience of tip top digital with all it's use advantages makes sense to us as a value immersion proposition. my 2 cents anyway. for some passing vinyl would be minimum to justify it. fair enough.

i would agree that if our digital does fully equal or surpass our particular vinyl and particular vinyl pressings in our systems then it does help to decide a path. but as craig infers, there are many iterations of cause and effect involved.
 
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Craig
Nice write-up. Your impressions are very consistent with what heard last week. The music just seemed to be “there”, unlike what I have heard in the past.

The digital vs analog questions do not interest me. I have no desire spend my time jumping up at least every 12 to 20 minutes to flip or skip tracks. I never sit hear thinking my Vivaldi should sound more analog.
 
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this is a dCS thread, but the question of whether a mega priced digital stack actually equals or surpasses a high quality vinyl rig has been one of my decades long hobby focuses and a subject i have considered daily for years. and i respect @craigr responding that as he describes his demo; the systems are so different hard to know, but that what he heard from Varese demo was better than the same music on vinyl in his system. a well considered response i think.

i know in my system the target for me has evolved to whether my particular 'mega-priced' digital stack is good enough that it does not (1) ever remind my it is digital, (2) my body thinks it's analog, (3) i can listen to it forever and it does not have a 'sound'....just music, and (4) not think about what it might be 'not doing'. i can go 30 days, do zero analog, and not miss it. it checks all those boxes.

yet; when i fire up the big rig vinyl and tape, we are going to a different place of musical realism.....especially with better to great pressings or tape. the media takes over and strongly changes the equation.

my point being that surpassing high level vinyl is not really necessary or essential as a justification for 'mega-priced' digital. it's more that the whole experience of tip top digital with all it's use advantages makes sense to us as a value immersion proposition. my 2 cents anyway. for some passing vinyl would be minimum to justify it. fair enough.

i would agree that if our digital does fully equal or surpass our particular vinyl and particular vinyl pressings in our systems then it does help to decide a path. but as craig infers, there are many iterations of cause and effect involved.
Thanks Mike. At some point I can't keep chasing the top end of both formats. It seems like the Varese has definitely reset what digital sounds like for a dCS Vivaldi owner. I just don't know if I can spring for it....I have heard good tape set ups and that's another world too!
 
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Of course, my Sonus Faber Il. Cremonese speakers may not (is this an understatement) be equivalent to the Wilson Chronograph XVXs, and my D'agostino Momentum MxV Stereo S250 am is not the D'Agostino Momentum MxV 400 mono blocks, and this could certainly contribute to the difference.
We all make these kinds of comparisons, but I do think it is difficult to attribute sonic characteristics to a particular component in the context of two systems with loudspeakers from two different manufacturers.

Ron:
The Vivaldi Apex had less "presence", there was "something" (a haze, a mist) between the notes in comparison to the Varese. The soundstage was large but defined with the Vivaldi. The Varese just seemed not to have a soundstage-- the sound was just "there" as in a live performance; yes, the percussion was at the back of the orchestra, the soloist clearly in front, a singer separate from the backup singers and the accompanists, etc. But with the Vivaldi you noted such, and with the Varese you just didn't. That is what I meant by "nothing". The tonal character of the instruments and voices were better or should I say more accurate with the Varese, some might say "more realistic." There was still the slightest impression that you were listening to a recording with the Vivaldi in comparison to the Varese.
Thank you!
 
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We all make these kinds of comparisons, but I do think it is difficult to attribute sonic characteristics to a particular component in the context of two systems with loudspeakers from two different manufacturers.
it's "more" valid to compare digital front ends to identical known analog sources and media in different systems, but that is also problematic as the idea of 'identical' relative to analog hardware and set up is hard to measure up to. so the whole idea of different system 'proof' is less than ideal.

in my Wadax journey one stop was hearing it in the same system i had heard the CH Precision 6 box mono-dac in the year before. so that was a pretty strong 'delta' data point. strong enough to tip me over to justify shiping it to my own room. yet i still required hearing it head to head to my MSB/Taiko in my own system to seal the deal.

but until you mentally buy it in your own personal situation it's hard to take any big steps. these are not logical acquisitions. they are dream type things. but dreams can be wonderful. ;) if you need much convincing probably not for you....yet.
 
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it's "more" valid to compare digital front ends to identical known analog sources and media in different systems, but that is also problematic as the idea of 'identical' relative to analog hardware and set up is hard to measure up to.
Sorry, but I don't understand this at all.

I was intending to say only this: Identifying accurately the differences in sound between one dCS DAC and another dCS DAC when the DACs are in systems with different speakers is problematic.
 
Sorry, but I don't understand this at all.
sorry if i was not clear enough. i will expand.

my point was that if you have two systems with different electronics and speakers, but each one with the same tt/arm/cart/phono and pressings, then comparing digital to the vinyl with-in each system would get you closer than across different whole systems but without identical source references. since the source references are relatively equal.

or even if two analog front ends in different systems are even similar; let's say with the same cartridge, similar arm, same phono. it would be a useful compare then. and these type things do happen.

this would be a closer compare for two digital choices, than two separate systems/rooms/electronics/speakers. but not perfect. one can make the case that the system character differences could reduce the delta, but having the same source reference side by side would be a step closer than totally different systems.

for years i had lots of friends with my same tt/arm/cart/phono; so this reference was therefore very useful in talking to those guys about compares in general. conclusions about things did hold up over time. proof of concept.....to a degree. worth the trouble to consider.

I was intending to say only this: Identifying accurately the differences in sound between one dCS DAC and another dCS DAC when the DACs are in systems with different speakers is problematic.
agree.
 
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@craigr , So here's the million dollar question. A lot of said the dCS Vivaldi finally was on par with our vinyl systems. Me included. I think my Vivaldi doesn't sound equal to my vinyl, rather it has its own virtues and ditto my vinyl. Therefore my music choice dictate platform. Also if the music is a digital source, I usually buy it in digital, in tape/analog source then I buy the LP.

So the question, If Varese is that much better than the Vivaldi, does it unequivocally eclipse vinyl as a source? It's a sincere question and not trying to ignite the age old digital vs vinyl debate. It's a rather sincere and specific question based on what you heard.

(trying to be nice to all, but if you haven't heard the Varese, you can't answer my question :)

Jeff, surely the answer to your question, and by how much it is better or worse or just different, depends on what the vinyl front end is.
 
Jeff, surely the answer to your question, and by how much it is better or worse or just different, depends on what the vinyl front end is.
i think beyond a reasonable level of vinyl front end hardware performance, the issue would be much more the specialness of the pressing (s). and maybe you intended to infer that.

i think when contemplating the actual advantages of vinyl, commitment to acquiring good pressings is a big issue. at least equal to hardware anyway.
 
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i think beyond a reasonable level of vinyl front end hardware performance, the issue would be much more the specialness of the pressing (s). and maybe you intended to infer that.

i think when contemplating the actual advantages of vinyl, commitment to acquiring good pressings is a big issue. at least equal to hardware anyway.

The best cartridge/arm/table/phono will present the information on those superior pressings in the most convincing way. It all matters.
 
The best cartridge/arm/table/phono will present the information on those superior pressings in the most convincing way.
i see it slightly differently. owning multiple turntables over a number of years, the pressings are more significant than the hardware......past a certain hardware point. agree that the best possible gear matters a bunch too. but with analog the media does the heavy lifting. especially relative to digital. the best pressings just leap ahead.
It all matters.
of course. we can agree on that part.
 

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