dCS Varese short review

[Lee]

I understand. I am a music lover, go to classical concerts in ‘het Concertgebouw’ in Amsterdam on a regular basis and - as a consumer - I am only in this hobby to enjoy the music I love at home at the highest sonic level I can possibly achieve.

Although we all hear differently and have different sonic preferences I do not understand the ‘Wadax haters’ on WBF and their (sometimes) ultra negative comments, mostly only based on listening experiences under show conditions (and just to be sure: I am not suggesting that you are a ‘Wadax hater’, Lee). Even if one ultimately prefers another digital device, be it a tube dac or another solid state dac, in my view it cannot be denied that Wadax has achieved something very special with their reference gear (I have not yet heard the Wadax Studio). But if WBF members disagree with me on the latter, well that is fine as well, as long as such a view is not (solely) based on prejudice but on actual listening experiences under ‘controlled circumstances’.

I agree that Wadax has achieved something special. I am just curious what the comparison would yield.

How fortunate you are to be able to hear music at the Concertgebouw!

 

[spiritofmusic]

I don't get this.
There are no comparos between the uber TTs out there.
I don't see Lee or any industry figure pushing for a WB GMTOne v AF 0 v Esoteric mag-drive v GP Monaco 3.0 v SAT DD.
Not that any of us would complain if even one head to head happened.

 

[microstrip]

While perhaps that may be, have you heard a direct comparison of Wadax and Varese to make that claim?

IMO no directs compares are needed in such top equipment. They have sufficient personality and individual characteristics to allow us to know what we prefer, as long we use the same recordings and listen to several systems using them. This hobby is mostly a matter of preference.

This thread is mainly on the Varese system - we can expect that people who prefer the dCS sound show their enthusiasm for it. I will restrain until I listen to it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

See my posts above. I have heard Wadax systems at shows. I am not sure what was missing from those shows versus what you call a “full reference Wadax.” I believe all the boxes were there. Not sure on how many Akasa cables. I would interested in hearing your system but not sure where you are.

We are in agreement that hearing both systems in the same system properly setup in a good room is the best comparison.

Unfortunately, it appears impossible to make that happen.

until/unless you hear a source compared to another source in a well known to you reference system it's all conjecture. so for instance let's say two systems both have the same tt/arm/cart/phono; and both systems are well known to you mature systems and you are using the same pressings; then two digital sources compared to that same exact tt set-up in separate systems might be a higher level data point than any other excepting an actual in system head to head.

there are real world ways to get close to a head to head. but single source show/dealer system to show/dealer system is definitely not anywhere close to that. the mental place you are in with the commercial spin is also an issue.

not to say you are not doing the best you or anyone can to connect dots. but it is what it is, and not what it's not.

and if the Absolute Sound pending Varese review only has a dCS Vivaldi Apex in system compare and nothing else then we are not much better. that is not new ground. 20 Varese reviews comparing it to the Vivaldi Apex is not helpful. it's marketing. but it might be all we get. and all dCS wants.

not saying what the Varese is not or what it is. only talking about getting our hands of useful reference compare information to understand about it.

direct head to head compares in the same reference system with multi-box crazy spendy digital is very difficult to make happen. i've done one properly so i know about it personally.

 

[caesar]

,,, They have sufficient personality and individual characteristics to allow us to know what we prefer, as long we use the same recordings and listen to several systems using them.

...

What is the "sufficient personality and individual characteristics" of each?

 

[Lee]

until/unless you hear a source compared to another source in a well known to you reference system it's all conjecture. so for instance let's say two systems both have the same tt/arm/cart/phono; and both systems are well known to you mature systems and you are using the same pressings; then two digital sources compared to that same exact tt set-up in separate systems might be a higher level data point than any other excepting an actual in system head to head.

there are real world ways to get close to a head to head. but single source show/dealer system to show/dealer system is definitely not anywhere close to that. the mental place you are in with the commercial spin is also an issue.

not to say you are not doing the best you or anyone can to connect dots. but it is what it is, not what it's not.

and if the Absolute Sound pending Varese review only has a dCS Vivaldi in system compare and nothing else then we are not much better.

That’s why I added the wink in my comments. I was just giving you friendly grief as my dad would say. No “commercial spin” here as I appreciate both brands. The good news is we are spoiled for choice for good digital these days. It seems things are only getting better too.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I don't get this.
There are no comparos between the uber TTs out there.

not true.

I don't see Lee or any industry figure pushing for a WB GMTOne v AF 0 v Esoteric mag-drive v GP Monaco 3.0 v SAT DD.
Not that any of us would complain if even one head to head happened.

Mr. Fremer get's down and dirty in many of his turntable reviews, lot's of time with both sitting there side to side, many times with his digital captures. he is one guy who weighs in freely without fear and calls it like he hears it. does not mean you like what he does or agree with him. but he steps on toes. unfiltered. yet he also respects each product and is not demeaning to any. if he has a bias he talks about it and the other side of it too.

 

[Lee]

I don't get this.
There are no comparos between the uber TTs out there.
I don't see Lee or any industry figure pushing for a WB GMTOne v AF 0 v Esoteric mag-drive v GP Monaco 3.0 v SAT DD.
Not that any of us would complain if even one head to head happened.

There has been some commentary from Fremer on his preference for the WB. Jacob did a shootout of it with his Air Force Zero but not sure if that was made public.

 

[Lee]

I’m all for a reference turntable shootout. It’s likely the manufacturers would feel uncomfortable about this.

I didn’t mention table shootouts as we were talking digital here.

 

[microstrip]

What is the "sufficient personality and individual characteristics" of each?

They are enough to drive my biased choice ( and that of many others BTW). I have reported several times in WBF on what I appreciate in the dCS Vivaldi.

BTW, my stable home reference is a factory standard Studer A80 playing Tape Project tapes.

 

[microstrip]

There has been some commentary from Fremer on his preference for the WB. Jacob did a shootout of it with his Air Force Zero but not sure if that was made public.

What is the point of such gossip? Such shootouts are mostly a check for matching between recording and playing equipment. BTW, we can expect people who have been eating apples during most of their lives to prefer them to oranges ...

 

[bonzo75]

There has been some commentary from Fremer on his preference for the WB. Jacob did a shootout of it with his Air Force Zero but not sure if that was made public.

Please make it public

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Please make it public

no don't. also don't mention it either.

 

[caesar]

They are enough to drive my biased choice ( and that of many others BTW). I have reported several times in WBF on what I appreciate in the dCS Vivaldi.

BTW, my stable home reference is a factory standard Studer A80 playing Tape Project tapes.

I am glad you know you what you like and what your references are.

As you would agree, high end audio is a subjective experience.

Why do you assume everyone is like you?

 

[Ron Resnick]

my stable home reference is a factory standard Studer A80 playing Tape Project tapes.

That is an excellent reference!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Jacob did a shootout of it with his Air Force Zero but not sure if that was made public.

I heard this comparison in person.

 

[JiminGa]

I heard this comparison in person.

What did you personally think ?

 

[microstrip]

I am glad you know you what you like and what your references are.

As you would agree, high end audio is a subjective experience.

Why do you assume everyone is like you?

Well, my main point is that stereo listening is an individual experience - it assumes we are all different!

 

[still-one]

Is there even a dealer in the US that carries both Wadex and dCS? I doubt there are even a handful of potential purchasers in the US that have relationships with two different local dealers to borrow these units for comparison.

Many of us have relationships that allow us to borrow anything to A/B against our current set-ups. That said I would never abuse that offer by borrowing something that I know I would never pull the trigger on.

I have heard how much better the Varese is compared to the Vivaldi APEX. I have passed on trying one in my room. Unfortunately I am not comfortable with the cost associated with the upgrade.

At the current price points I am very satisfied with Vivaldi APEX. I will watch for new products in this price range. When I A/B’d with a Select II each had its strengths but the APEX was what I preferred.

 

[caesar]

Well, my main point is that stereo listening is an individual experience - it assumes we are all different!

Ok, yes, “we are all different”, I agree!

But I am not following your logic on comparisons. … whereas I agree with you that if someone is acclimated to a certain taste - dcs or wadax, they would think their flavor is the best. Each brand has its fanboys and dedicated reviewers …

Yet, for those who aren’t as set on their tastes and preferences, the comparison of sonic differences between the two units would be very helpful so they can select what’s best them.