Denafrips product owners please fall in
- Thread starter Abyss Man
- Start date
Last Friday, two Canare BNC cables I ordered from B&H arrived. I made sure to order correct impedance (75) with shortest length possible (0.3m). The cables were professionally terminated by Canare and shipped from Germany. I then connected them with the Hermes and TP, and after both units were setup to send/receive clock, I couldn't believe the system sounded worse, comparing with what I could get before the clock synchronize!
It sounded more congest and a bit bright. Don't mind the cheapo HDMI cable I use in place of my real cable which I should receive later in few weeks (Tubulus Concentus). To my surprise, this US$ 4 HDMI cable sounds quite good!
Then I borrowed a pair of Synergistic Research Atmosphere X BNC cable (US$ 670 each where I live) from a store. Even without any break-in I can immediately say it sounded a lot better. More body, details and weight with every note.
At first, I planned to cut corner on clock cables, as I didn't believe BNC cables can make this level of difference (they don't even transmit audio signal after all!). It seems I might have to shell out more money for these cable (damn Denafrips why you have to use two!). Cables came with a ground plug but I haven't tried it yet. The paper said I mustn't connect this ground to power conditioner or isolation transformer and now I have no free wall socket left.
It sounded more congest and a bit bright. Don't mind the cheapo HDMI cable I use in place of my real cable which I should receive later in few weeks (Tubulus Concentus). To my surprise, this US$ 4 HDMI cable sounds quite good!
Then I borrowed a pair of Synergistic Research Atmosphere X BNC cable (US$ 670 each where I live) from a store. Even without any break-in I can immediately say it sounded a lot better. More body, details and weight with every note.
At first, I planned to cut corner on clock cables, as I didn't believe BNC cables can make this level of difference (they don't even transmit audio signal after all!). It seems I might have to shell out more money for these cable (damn Denafrips why you have to use two!). Cables came with a ground plug but I haven't tried it yet. The paper said I mustn't connect this ground to power conditioner or isolation transformer and now I have no free wall socket left.
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PrTv, I feel for you. I have the same setup as you do. I should receive my Hermes DDC today, to be connected to my T+ DAC. I purchased two clock cables (1m) from Sweatwater, which were recommended by Alvin (Vinshine Audio). These are 75-ohm BNC Word Clock Cable with Canare LV-61S Coaxial Wire and Neutrik Gold Connectors. So pretty similar to your own clock cables.
I had the same feeling about not paying to much for coaxial cables, which basically carry RF frequencies. After all, these are used in profesionnal recording studios and hate to pay for 'audiophile grade' coaxial cables, since IMHO they have nothing special from a cable construction standpoint. Will report my findings in next coming days. My HDMI cable is a Wireworld Silver Platinum (1m).
PrTv, got my Hermes today. Unfortunately, I will not ne in position to comment on the coaxial/BNC cables, since I have a flow control network issue involving a piece of equipment that needs to be swaped. It will take a few weeks before I can comment back.
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Hi Dasign,
Clock cables/coaxial digital cables do affect the sonic result significantly.
There are some good and inexpensive choices in the market.
I highly recommend the Black Cat Audio products made by Chris Sommovigo.
His Silverstar!75 Mk2 digital cable is a very good-buy.
Please check it up.
Please update what you think about that cable.
Today, I've just received my Tubulus Concentus.
And have it setup along with my SR Atmosphere BNC cables. I'd say the Tubulus cable is very stiff on lateral plane and I had to move my DDC to accommodate the cable, as I want to avoid unnecessary stress on the I2S ports or plugs.
Now the DDC does not sit dead center of the Dac, and for the OCD like me, this annoys me so much!
That aside... immediately even before breaking in, I think instrument separation is better. It's like there's more "air" between the notes. Will put some more hours on the cable and will report back re: the sound.
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EDIT: You may see that I connected both RCA/XLR at the same time, which is not recommended based on Alvin. However, I couldn't identify any major sonic difference between using 1 output or 2 simultaneously. I tested this with my very detailed/revealing headphones, Focal Utopia, by playing a track on XLR, and then, with the music on, I removed the RCA cables, and then reconnected... Honestly, I couldn't say I can hear sonic degradation.
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PrTv, congrats for your new cables. This morning I reviewed the Hermes manual and found a mistake in my original configuration. So got the Hermes operating and it sounded awkward the first two hours…Timbre was off and missing low/top end frequencies. After a few hours, the situation really improved. So wondering if some of your issues are related somewhat to insufficient burn-in?
I will wait a few days and report back, since my situation is improving hour per hour. Right now, timbre, frequency extremes are back. Getting lot more low-level details and improved soundstage perception.
May you please elaborate what you did wrong with yours? I hope it's the same case with mine (although unlikely).
I rarely regret buying hifi equipment but I started to doubt myself for switching from a perfectly fine Ayre QB9 Twenty to "the TP + Hermer + expensive clock cables + expensive HDMI cable" as the latter can't give me the same level of musical enjoyment as the Ayre. It's the lack of coherence and how bright the sound is, that put me off.
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I think the Terminator Plus sounds way more natural and less “bright” running it in OS mode versus NOS mode. YMMV
I followed the I2S Youtube video instructions from Vinshine Audio which explains I2S configuration between a Pontus DAC and Hermes DDC. I simply forgot to configure the Hermes to accept the clock coming from the T+.
On my side, the T+/Hermes combo just sounds fantastic with my Canare/Wireworld cables. After 48 hours of burn-in, the Hermes reduced background noise, increased low level details and expands the soundstage. Instrument delineation is increased.
Essentially, the Hermes does not change the T+ personality, it just increases its qualities. I am very happy with my Canare clock cables and have no intention to replace these at least in the short term, since I am very satisfied with my actual sound.
From my reading of your post, your T+ sounds better than the T+/Hermes combo. Do you leave your T+/Hermes always with power on? Maybe you should contact Alvin from Vinshine Audio for some suggestions to solve your issue. Alvin is very responsive.
Thanks for your input mate.
May you confirm which model is your Canare cable? Mine looks like this.
I setup my T+ and Hermes correctly. I enabled the clock and made sure to send out the right 45/49 clock.
I use Tubulus Concentus I2S cable and made sure to config I2S pin-out correctly. The Dac is on correct phase (tried both 1/0 phases and picked one that sounds best).
I even went extra length and use a good quality Synergistic Research AC cable with the Hermes (if that even provides any help).
Also I left the DAC / DDC on 24/7.
Truly don't know what I did wrong here. I really want to love this combo and I spent a lot of money on it, but I can't lie to myself that, still, I'm not so satisfied. It's not that I want "better sound"... but it's just that the combo has certain sonic trait that I don't like.
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My Canare coaxial cable is different from yours. I purchased the Canare LV-61S cable with matched Neutrik BCP-B31F 75 ohm BNC connectors. I took the time to closely look at your Canare L-3CFW cable which uses the Canare BCP-B31F 75 ohm BNC connector. The main difference between those cables is the quality of the connectors.
I've looked at the return loss (RL) specification on both connectors and the Neutrik has by far the best RL specification. A high return loss is desirable and results in a lower insertion loss. The RL specification @ 3Ghz is 26.4 db for the Canare connector and 35 db for the Neutrik . A 8.6 db RL difference is a major difference in RL quality. So in theory, there will be more reflections/insertion loss using the Canare connector. This could be the reason why the Canare sounds worse than your Synergistic Research Atmosphere X BNC cable.
Your setup is fine. So it could just be a matter of taste at the end. What sonic trait do you dislike exactly? If you just listen to the T+ by itself, do you like the sound or not? If the answer is yes and you feel that the T+/Hermes combo fails to satisfy you, there could potentially be an issue with the Hermes. By any means, I would suggest that you wait for an additional break-in period for the combo, before making any costly move on this situation. I hope the best for you.
Attachments
Thanks for your detailed reply/analysis. Truly appreciated!
Will wait for all items to be fully broken in before final evaluation.
CK
You are bad person to let me spend more money!
I ordered Gaia even though I do not have Denafris Terminator Dac.
I only have Dave, Mcaler and EMMLab Dac2.
Let us see what happen!
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Hi there,CK
You are bad person to let me spend more money!
I ordered Gaia even though I do not have Denafris Terminator Dac.
I only have Dave, Mcaler and EMMLab Dac2.
Let us see what happen!
I'm curious how do you plan to use the Gaia with your setup? Have you received it and how do you like it?
I found the HDMI cables make a huge difference, I have not experimented with BNC but it sounds like I should. A year ago Alvin recommended
https://usashop.sommercable.com/en/Cable/BNC-Video-Cable/Wordclock-SC-Focusline-L-Highflex-FL59.html
https://usashop.sommercable.com/en/Cable/HiFi-Home/Multimediakabel-EXCELSIOR-BlueWater-EBH4.html
The HDMI cable was way better than the $ 500 cable I had but not as good as the Audioquest Thunder 4K I am using. Maby start with the Black Cat cables.
https://usashop.sommercable.com/en/Cable/BNC-Video-Cable/Wordclock-SC-Focusline-L-Highflex-FL59.html
https://usashop.sommercable.com/en/Cable/HiFi-Home/Multimediakabel-EXCELSIOR-BlueWater-EBH4.html
The HDMI cable was way better than the $ 500 cable I had but not as good as the Audioquest Thunder 4K I am using. Maby start with the Black Cat cables.
HDMI cable can make a difference of course. About the BNC, some said a studio quality cable should be sufficient, but I found that the system sounds better with an "audiophile" cable.
My Atmosphere X BNC has a ground connector, and at first I didn't pay much attention to this extra ground connector (doesn't make much sense to connect additional ground specifically out of BNC cable(s) since my system already has ground (power outlet). Plus, connecting this ground wire requires a separate free outlet (cannot be connected to the same strip or any power conditional strip).
Anyway, last week my curiosity got the best of me, and I tried this additional ground with a dedicated unfiltered power strip directly to the wall. I didn't expect to hear any difference but the music sounded a bit fuller details were slightly better. I tried removing / reconnecting the ground and was sure it wasn't my imagination. I really have no idea why this can make any difference, because ground is ground and that other outlet also shared the same main ground of the house.
Just updated the USB MCU firmware v3.12 on my Hermes DDC and my T+ DAC never sounded so great. The Vinshine Audio e-mail indicates that there will be some technical improvements, bug fixes as well as improved sound. There is added clarity and darker background IMHO.
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