Detailed Speaker Setup and Optimization

[Elliot G.]

I wasn't there. Were you sitting in the sweet spot or just in the room?

I was there multiple times as they did CH training there over the four days. They demo's the P1/P10/P10mono and the different phono eq options.
To be honest it was not my favorite room and I much preferrred last years sound.

 

[Elliot G.]

I heard may be 6 or 7 wilson set ups at munich , same sound character.

We agree on something...the world is coming to an end LOL.
I thought the XVX demo was totally foolish and should have never been played in that space

 

[andromedaaudio]

I’m not making a case for you to buy the Wilsons.

Lol , i have nice speakers already why would i do that

 

[sbnx]

I would not question what you heard. Your ears, your hearing.
What I question is the quality of the audition. Shows are notorious for not putting the system’s best foot forward.

I don't know. Roy discussed this same system in his review. He even made comments comparing last years system to this years system. His comment boil down to each speaker was optimized to sound like that speaker. So, I think in the demo at Munich one heard a "Wilson" sound this year and they heard a "Rockport" sound last year. If someone doesn't like the "Wilson" sound that is ok. That is why we have a lot of choices.

This thread is really about the setup process and the optimization of any given speaker. One needs to choose wisely. A Wilson speaker is never going to sound like a Clarisys which will never sound like an Avantgarde and the other way around. Don't try and put a square peg into a round hold. Even a perfect setup process is not going to shave the corners off to make it fit.

 

[Another Johnson]

I heard may be 6 or 7 wilson set ups at munich , same sound character.

Well, it’s not your cup of tea, coffee, or beer. Better to move on. They’re not for you. You have to like what you buy. Nothing wrong with that.
We have not listened together. I might have the same reactions to what you heard. From what I gleaned from the Munich reports, my impression was that there were many suboptimal demos this year. As I meant to imply, I can’t judge things based on transient setups in shows. The guys who put the room together will always spin things afterwards.
A personal demo at a competent dealer has always been a better venue… but YMMV.

 

[Another Johnson]

I heard may be 6 or 7 wilson set ups at munich , same sound character.

All are bass deficient to your ears?

 

[andromedaaudio]

All are bass deficient to your ears?

Yes .
The demo that had the most bass of all of them was playing in the open space , XVX on The big D agostino relentless.

This thread is about speaker placement , but if the speakers you have lack bass then there is no way you can place them optimal .
The best you re gonna get is some sort of compromise

 

[Elliot G.]

All are bass deficient to your ears?

I wontsay that but IMO the smaller Wilson speakers showed much better IMO than the 2 Alex V and the XVX that I heard. I felt the sound in the Nagra room was not coherent and the bass did not match the speakers very well. I think in the CH room they may have played the whole thing too loud and the room came into effect too much and stuff sounded shouty.
I have heard Wilson speakers with good bass however. Marty's room has excellent bass.

 

[Elliot G.]

SHows are just that shows. I can say easily that I have never heard amazing sound at any show, its just IMO not possible to do that under a severe time schedule, in a mediocre space, with minimal room treatment, high noise levels, not great power and a lot of fresh gear or freshly moved gear.
Even Miracle Max couldn't bring that to life!
I don't believe that is really the shows purpose and all this judging at shows IMO makes very little sense

 

[andromedaaudio]

In general ;

I think the most important factor is WHAT you buy , set up is the next factor apart from the room off course but that speaks for itself .
If you make the wrong start you re in for a lot of ( financial ) trouble

 

[NC Lee]

Excuses excuses even with subs there was hardly audible bass.
Pics from the set up

If you can't hear bass out of two subs, how could it not be setup/room or crossover or something wrong...

 

[andromedaaudio]

If you can't hear bass out of two subs, how could it not be setup/room or crossover or something wrong...

The subs are merely an addition to the bass output of the main speaker , they are not a replacement .
There is only so much you can do with a sub


Wilson / munich was just an example .

 

[Lee]

If you can't hear bass out of two subs, how could it not be setup/room or crossover or something wrong...

Particularly something as excellent as Watchdogs and the sublime bass drivers on the Wilsons.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I'm going to start calling you "Drama".

I m getting scared now , because i know you re great in marketing stuff

 

[Another Johnson]

Particularly something as excellent as Watchdogs and the sublime bass drivers on the Wilsons.

Yes. It makes no sense. Since he asserts there was virtually no bass present in any Wilson speaker, this makes me wonder if all the Wilson installations were set up by incompetent boobs, or if there’s something else in play.
The very idea that there is a debate about Wilson bass is contrary to everything we’ve heard in person for the last 40 years. How does Wilson keep that three to six month backlog going? Obviously somebody is getting bass out of their Wilsons. But apparently not in Munich.

 

[andromedaaudio]

It was just an example .
Forget about Wilson, let s go back on topic .
Transducer adjustment etc

 

[Another Johnson]

Particularly something as excellent as Watchdogs and the sublime bass drivers on the Wilsons.

Figured it out.

Andromeda-design.nl - design

handcrafted loudspeakers

www.andromeda-design.nl

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think another great set up guy which is hardly ever mentioned by the press is manuel huber.

From.this picture you can see what i mean , if a speaker has sufficient bass out put it can be placed free in the room .
If it needs the walls its already a compromise

 

[Carlos269]

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the end result:

 

[Elliot G.]

Yes. It makes no sense. Since he asserts there was virtually no bass present in any Wilson speaker, this makes me wonder if all the Wilson installations were set up by incompetent boobs, or if there’s something else in play.
The very idea that there is a debate about Wilson bass is contrary to everything we’ve heard in person for the last 40 years. How does Wilson keep that three to six month backlog going? Obviously somebody is getting bass out of their Wilsons. But apparently not in Munich.

FYI Bill and Peter were in Munich and I assume they supervised the speaker setups in some rooms although not in the CH room. One persons opinion does not make it true however personally the XVX and the Alex V presentations were IMO not great but again this is a show and many rooms of various brands had much the same colorations to me. I think the CH room was the best of them however the room did influence the sound of the system dramatically at the levels they were playing. Keep in mind they were using the system to demo the differences in phono stages and eq curves to full house of attendees. There purpose was to show these differences and I don't think that they played music for any other purposes at least not at the multiple times I was present.
Shows are not the best places to make serious decisions or judgments about the absolute abilities of gear. IMO the outcomes are just a percentage of the capabilities of many of these world class systems and lets be honest the premise was never to have the best possible sound in a convention center or a hotel room. These absolutes are made up and if one notices vary all over the place. I always wonder at a show how a room can be the best and the worst at the same time. Yet they are. Make use of the information as you wish but as an absolute I suggest that all beware of such comclusions.
One last thing the sound of rooms varies daily, varies by the music choices, varies by how crowded it is, varies by bias and predisposition, varies by experience, varies where one sits or stands and overall just plain varies. These are not world class set ups and installations no matter how hard many try. I assure you that if you asked those who did this they would say we did the best we could under the circumstances and I doubt any would say this is the best possible from what they showed. Just one man's view from my experience doing may shows and visiting many many more.