Difference in violins

[Gregadd]

let's begin to pick away at his logic.
This must be a fair test because she got four of six right. To then argue that the test was unfair we must also invalidate her four correct choices. But he concedes that audiophiles can tell the difference. This implies they have some special skill. The well used Golden ear exception. The test is useless. The results of a single test by a single subject is meaningless. It would be if you said no one could run a four minute mile and putting forth a test where one person was able to do it 4 out of six times. But you have conceded that professionals could do it.

 

[Gregadd]

Furthermore the burden of proof is on him. It is he who claims no audible difference. That means her picking 4 out 6 tends to disprove his theory. She was totally neutral in this exercise. It would go more to his proof if she was 2 out of 6 rather than 4 out of 6.

 

[Mikem53]

Yamaha NS10 for monitors.. Never heard of them.. I thought all those studio guys used JBL for monitoring. Interesting view about how experience can be substituted for hearing..
As usual, @Gregadd... You bring up some interesting points and factual information on how others in the real world “hear” these format differences, or not...
I also noticed there were no female recording engineers mentioned ?

 

[Gregadd]

What possible bearing does the age of the engineer have? Most audiophiles are old. You have already conceded they can hear the difference. Another example of citing a fact that his no bearing on the conclusion.

 

[Mikem53]

What possible bearing does the age of the engineer have? Most audiophiles are old. You have already conceded they can hear the difference. Another example of citing a fact that his no bearing on the conclusion.

The fact that as you age, you loose the ability to hear the higher frequencies.. which is why i thought his comment about experience was an appropriate comment, as I am very sensitive to high frequencies and I’m old..

 

[Gregadd]

The point is logically he is defeating his own argument. Yes the difference is audible except to a small subset of individuals. Therefore we will let the "tail wag the dog." It supports our argument.

"Those who seek the chaperone of science need some science."

 

[Gregadd]

MP3 makes sense because of data storage cause?​

Without discussing https://mkomo.com/cost-per-gigabyte streaming or accessing music from the cloud let's consider this issue.

 

[Mikem53]

MP3 makes sense because of data storage cause?​

Without discussing https://mkomo.com/cost-per-gigabyte streaming or accessing music from the cloud let's consider this issue.
View attachment 73848

You’re not considering that MP3 has been around since the mid 90’s when personal devices and bandwidth weren’t what they are today. People were more interested in portability then SQ with their iPods.
FLAC format came along almost 10 years later, in 2003. Your graph is for hard drive cost, not SSD,NVRAM.
MP3 satisfies most but the audiophile types.. not sure what your point is..

 

[Mikem53]

The point is logically he is defeating his own argument. Yes the difference is audible except to a small subset of individuals. Therefore we will let the "tail wag the dog." It supports our argument.

"Those who seek the chaperone of science need some science."

Ever been to a large meeting with everyone having a say ?

 

[Gregadd]

You’re not considering that MP3 has been around since the mid 90’s when personal devices and bandwidth weren’t what they are today. People were more interested in portability then SQ with their iPods.
FLAC format came along almost 10 years later, in 2003. Your graph is for hard drive cost, not SSD,NVRAM.
MP3 satisfies most but the audiophile types.. not sure what your point is..

So the point is memory is no longer an issue.
People are always interested in sound quality. I have never seen a digital argument that that does not tout its' superior sound quality. I already discussed how relatively inexpensive a TG SSD drive is another thread. Tiadal, Pandora, etc store your music for free.
In case you still did not get it there is absolutely no need to sacrifice sound quality based on cost or portability. My 1TB Seagate outboard SSD is so light I often wonder if there is anything in it.

 

[Gregadd]

Ever been to a large meeting with everyone having a say ?

On the off hand that is not a rhetorical question. I'll just remind you I am a lawyer.

 

[Mikem53]

So the point is memory is no longer an issue.
People are always interested in sound quality. I have never seen a digital argument that that does not tout its' superior sound quality. I already discussed how relatively inexpensive a TG SSD drive is another thread. Tiadal, Pandora, etc store your music for free.
In case you still did not get it there is absolutely no need to sacrifice sound quality based on cost or portability. My 1TB Seagate outboard SSD is so light I often wonder if there is anything in it.

I Agree, but there is a vast amount of music that has been captured in the half baked MP3 format that will play on..
I have a collection of MP3’s that contains over 190K songs dating back to the 1950’s thru the 1990’s.
It‘s on a 1TB hard drive that ran an automated radio station. I keep it offline since I don’t listen to MP3‘s, the selections are interesting to browse through, you still get a descent sound, especially for some of the older recordings. It still satisfies most people’s expectations of music.
Neil Young came out with the “pono player”, a high res portable player because of lousy MP3 Sound.
Yet I don’t think it ever caught on except with audiophile types.. Some people are perfectly satisfied with MP3 sound, they are even advertising MP3 quality with increased bit rates!
I think it basically boils down to saving money, as with most sub par things..

 

[Gregadd]

You can find musical enjoyment from a table radio.

I don't want to debate individual preferences or mass preferences for that matter. The problem i that these false or misleading arguments often translate into standards. The proponents of digital established 44.1khz as perfect. Although many argued for a higher sampling rate but were ignored. But they refer to those who seek to hold them to that minimum as "audiophools." The unequivocal fact is that there is a difference . It does matter. There are those who seek to go below MP3. Heaven forbid this should ever become the standard.

 

[astrotoy]

I have now given this cd a good listen and the difference in the sound of the violins is striking. My preferences in order:
Strad
Guadagnini
Amati
Vuillaume
Horvath
P. Guarneri
A. Guarneri

To my ears, both Guarneris sound closed-in and weak on dynamics. The Strad has a nice open sound with rich tonal palate. The Guad is very open with a lot of high frequency dynamics but is perhaps slight thin in body...the most different sounding of the bunch but I liked it. Amati was a bit like the Strad just diminished in every way. The Vuillaume sounds like someone who was trying to make a Strad copy and just didn't quite succeed. Horvath was ok but not standout to me.

Just to make sure people know, the Guarneri family was a well known Cremonese family of violin makers. Andrea was the first and his older son Pietro was better. However neither compared with the grandson known as Guarneri del Gesu, considered by many the finest violin maker, better than Stradivarius. The violins in this comparison do not include a del Gesu. Larry

 

[Gregadd]

It appears the test subject is listening to Audio -Technica headphones straight off the computer.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/audio-technica-sonicfuel-ath-ar3bt-on-ear-wireless-headphones-white/5896700.p?skuId=5896700

 

[morricab]

It appears the test subject is listening to Audio -Technica headphones straight off the computer.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/audio-technica-sonicfuel-ath-ar3bt-on-ear-wireless-headphones-white/5896700.p?skuId=5896700

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I just think this person has no idea what to listen for. Once you hear what the MP3 compression algo does to the sound you can pick it out consistently.

 

[Gregadd]

I just think this person has no idea what to listen for. Once you hear what the MP3 compression algo does to the sound you can pick it out consistently.

I'm just speculating but how do we know she is not just a shill. I prefer she was just a random member of the public. Wyhatdoes perfect pitchave to do with sampling rate?

 

[Mikem53]

For those with an ongoing interest in the topic, here is a must have cd:
View attachment 73537 View attachment 73538

I listened to ’What about this Mr. Paganini‘ yesterday. What an excellent recording.
A good example of how good the Redbook format can sound when properly executed.

 

[morricab]

I listened to ’What about this Mr. Paganini‘ yesterday. What an excellent recording.
A good example of how good the Redbook format can sound when properly executed.

THe label Tacet is interesting as they are making recordings with all tube chain in the electronics.

 

[bonzo75]

Didn't like Tacet, own a few of them. Performances not good either