Do Mobile Fidelity Vinyl Re-issues Have a Digital Step in the Process?

[rDin]

No clue what you are talking about.

You can of course justify MAGIC as "I know it when I hear it". But being a bit more specific beyond that would be great.

Yes, my fault for being ambiguous. MAGIC is not the easiest thing to define, but when you listen to enough vinyl (which is not my way of saying you haven't!) I find you tend to develop an ear for some qualities in AAA pressings which tend to be absent, or lesser, in digital transfers. The biggest one for me is timing. In digital vinyl pressings there is an inevitable loss of focus to the sound - timing becomes ever so slightly blurred - so simple things like a rim strike on a drum lacks the immediacy and *snap* that you hear on AAA, so they sound fake. Or say Maxwell's Silver Hammer clangs on Abbey Road don't have the same surprising attack as they do on AAA. The result of this blurring is that the entire sound field goes slightly out of focus compared to AAA; everything within the sound field, voices and instruments, sound more homogenous and less separate. Like I say, it's difficult to define. But I know it when I hear it

 

[Audire]

Did you go to law school over the weekend? Sorry to be harsh, but this is totally inaccurate.

No I’m not an attorney and didn’t sleep at a Holiday Inn Express, but my neighbor, is a retired JAG officer. I didn’t quote what he said word for word, but IMO I got the gist of it. If other labels can prove a loss of sales due to MoFi‘s misconduct then they have a suit. Whether or not they follow up with such is their call…

 

[Al M.]

Yes, my fault for being ambiguous. MAGIC is not the easiest thing to define, but when you listen to enough vinyl (which is not my way of saying you haven't!) I find you tend to develop an ear for some qualities in AAA pressings which tend to be absent, or lesser, in digital transfers. The biggest one for me is timing. In digital pressings there is an inevitable loss of focus to the sound - timing becomes ever so slightly blurred - so simple things like a rim strike on a drum lacks the immediacy and *snap* that you hear on AAA, so they sound fake. Or say Maxwell's Silver Hammer clangs on Abbey Road don't have the same surprising attack as they do on AAA. The result of this blurring is that the entire sound field goes slightly out of focus compared to AAA; everything within the sound field, voices and instruments, sound more homogenous and less separate. Like I say, it's difficult to define. But I know it when I hear it

Thanks. Fortunately I don't hear such timing issues with my current digital.

I will, however, agree that timing is a problem with a lot of digital, and has been with all my previous digital playback (which included five CD players or DACs). I have been pretty vocal about this in previous posts on WBF. I can imagine that digitally mastered LPs suffer from that as well, depending on which digital gear was used.

And yes, even on my current DAC you can screw up things with the wrong power cord.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

You must mean most vinyl audiophiles.

"Most people into vinyl" would include all those young and perhaps less young people who fuel the current celebrated "vinyl resurgence", in much greater numbers than traditional audiophiles. That resurgence is mostly based on digital sourced material, and their turntables tend to have USB ports which they often use, so those people don't care about an original analog experience. This is also why I don't think highly of this "vinyl resurgence" that many vinyl lover audiophiles seem so happy about.

Yet certainly, most of those people don't care about MoFi either, analog sourced or not, so in that sense you have a point.

Hi Al,

Fair point. I am not up to speed with the ratio of “people” into vinyl stratified by the resurgence. Have you seen any such data out of interest? I would have imagined that the young still only represent a small % of overall vinyl sales. Problem is determining sales I guess since tracking the used market must be very challenging.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Thanks. Fortunately I don't hear such timing issues with my current digital.

I will, however, agree that timing is a problem with a lot of digital, and has been with all my previous digital playback (which included five CD players or DACs). I have been pretty vocal about this in previous posts on WBF. I can imagine that digitally mastered LPs suffer from that as well, depending on which digital gear was used.

And yes, even on my current DAC you can screw up things with the wrong power cord.

Fwiw - the magic definition for me is more about the immersion speed. Does the LP take me immediately away into the music. Some folks have imho incorrectly said it is the music that does this not the pressing or recording. Imho this isn’t true since I can listen to the exact same music on one medium and be transported and bored on the other.

 

[mtemur]

IMHO that’s how a one step should be done.

 

[rDin]

Thanks. Fortunately I don't hear such timing issues with my current digital.

We're talking at odds as I'm not referring to digital audio, rather digitally pressed vinyl.

 

[dminches]

Don Was and Blue Note were clear up front that the BN75 titles were all cut from hi rez digital files and released at a cheaper price pf 19.99.
There is and was no deception.

Don realised after the releases the he made a mistake, hence the TP and BN80 releases, which are all analog

Rarities and Reissues: Blue Note Records Turns 75

Fifty-four years after it was recorded, Hank Mobley's immortal Soul Station has become a tale of two LPs. One, the original pressing (mono or stereo), is an artifact, an insanely valuable antique, the object of fevered jazz collectors the world over. The other is a fresh vinyl reissue, cut from...

www.stereophile.com

That article was written in October 2014. Many of the titles came out 6 months earlier and I don't believe they said anything about being from digital files.

 

[rDin]

Fwiw - the magic definition for me is more about the immersion speed. Does the LP take me immediately away into the music. Some folks have imho incorrectly said it is the music that does this not the pressing or recording. Imho this isn’t true since I can listen to the exact same music on one medium and be transported and bored on the other.

I'd rephrase that ever so slightly, but it's ultimately the same thing; the lack of MAGIC pulls me OUT of the musical experience.

 

[dminches]

Hi Al,

Fair point. I am not up to speed with the ratio of “people” into vinyl stratified by the resurgence. Have you seen any such data out of interest? I would have imagined that the young still only represent a small % of overall vinyl sales. Problem is determining sales I guess since tracking the used market must be very challenging.

Vinyl record buyers in the U.S. 2018-2019, by age group​

Published by
Marie Charlotte Götting

,
Jun 2, 2021
Consumers in the age bracket 25 to 34 were just as likely as those aged 55 and older to buy vinyl records in the United States, with 21 percent of those in both age groups having purchased at least one record in 2019. Vinyl purchases were less popular in 2019 for those aged between 45 and 54 than in the previous year.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Vinyl record buyers in the U.S. 2018-2019, by age group​

Published by
Marie Charlotte Götting

,
Jun 2, 2021
Consumers in the age bracket 25 to 34 were just as likely as those aged 55 and older to buy vinyl records in the United States, with 21 percent of those in both age groups having purchased at least one record in 2019. Vinyl purchases were less popular in 2019 for those aged between 45 and 54 than in the previous year.

Thanks!!

 

[dminches]

Thanks!!

I also think, and it is just my guess, that the younger buyers are much less likely to care about how the LP is sourced than we are.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I also think, and it is just my guess, that the younger buyers are much less likely to care about how the LP is sourced than we are.

100% agree with you and Al on that!

 

[rDin]

I also think, and it is just my guess, that the younger buyers are much less likely to care about how the LP is sourced than we are.

We owe it to them to educate them on this issue. On the other hand, we keep it quiet so we can grab the AAA's on the cheap?!

 

[rDin]

One of the positives with the current One-Step process is that it seems to throw a wide open window on to the soundstage. I've never heard reel-to-reel, so perhaps this is a quality of tape presentation that is being captured. Or are MoFi also using some EQ trick here to create this super wide open soundstage? Either way - it's the most striking thing for me about their presentation and something I do actually like about them.

 

[Drikus]

IMHO that’s how a one step should be done.

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And you know this to be true how exactly?

I mean all the analog purists are screaming for more transparency right now, very understandable of course, but who’s gonna control what they put on the sleeve or booklet is actually how it’s been done in that exact order and this for each and every future release from all these different companies?

 

[Al M.]

We're talking at odds as I'm not referring to digital audio, rather digitally pressed vinyl.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. That's interesting.

My point about timing issues in digital audio, especially in the older days, still stands.

I should clarify: it's not just about individual transient attacks, but more broadly about "rhythm & timing". Especially early digital presented rhythmic structure in a manner that made it seems "lag behind", with less of a tight upbeat character, resulting in a presentation that was rhythmically lazy and uninvolving. It didn't "swing" or "rock".

 

[dminches]

We owe it to them to educate them on this issue. On the other hand, we keep it quiet so we can grab the AAA's on the cheap?!

They don't care. Plus, the vast majority of new LPs are digitally sourced so what's the point?

 

[rDin]

They don't care. Plus, the vast majority of new LPs are digitally sourced so what's the point?

What’s the point? To pass on knowledge. To educate. None of us arrived at this hobby fully informed. We all benefitted from the experiences of others. Most of us still do. This MoFi issue is a fine example of how none of us were fully informed until recently….

And because there’s a huge availability of AAA on the secondary markets.

So, they may not care today, but tomorrow, who knows…

 

[Eichenbaum]

I think the main reason to be upset is not being able to tell the difference between an AAA and an ADA without a confession.