Do Quads wear out "all at once"?

[Chops]

Back when I worked for a hi-end audio shop in Tampa in the late 90's, we made several house visits to customers who owned the ESL63's. There was some kind of "recall" so to speak with them, something to do with the power supply section of the speakers. It was an easy 10 minute fix per speaker, and we must of done a dozen pair of them within a few weeks. We also had a coupe pairs in the repair shop for the same recall/fix. I wish I remember what it was.

I fondly remember one customer's pair of ESL63's in particular as he was the conductor for the Suncoast Symphony Orchestra in Clearwater (and I had played upright bass for 7 years throughout school, 6 years of which I was 1st chair). As well as being there for the repairs, we also brought a pair of heavy gold plated mono tube amplifiers for him. Those amps only produced 40 watts, but man did they make those ESL63's sing. Pretty much the best sounding electrostats I've ever heard.

As for DCM speakers, I have a pair of near mint TF350's. Right after I bought them (used of course), I pulled the mid-bass drivers and had the foam surrounds replaced. Great sounding little speakers with a surprising amount of decent quality bass that extended quite deep considering. Last time I played them was probably 16 years ago, with either an Adcom GFA-555 II, or an Aragon 2004 Mk II.

 

[Dogberry]

I've been casting around for my final upgrade. Were my speakers a settled issue and I had time a-plenty, I get on the list for some Decware SET amps. But I don't know if I'll be here at the other end of the waiting list, and my speakers are still unsettled. Quad 2905 have a total of 12 panels/pair. I have replaced two and identified three failures in the remaining ten. Ten panels at $429CDN each for cost, shipping and taxes. Then installation. Maybe 5k altogether. If I do it and they last another 11-12 years I'm happy as it won't be my problem then. So I've asked my tech if he would be willing to do ten panels. If he says 'no' I'm lost!
I shall try to take pictures of a panel upgrade if my tech allows it. It might help others. Having watched two panels be replaced it seems to me that anyone who can solder and build a basic kit could do it.

 

[stellavox]

I had 63's for 15 years or so. First pair sat in two cast iron "tubs" that lifted them up in the air - don't know who supplied them but it was in the early years of their production. Then I moved, and a music friend wouldn't let me take them away and made me an offer I couldn't refuse. After the move I bought another pair that required rebuilding so I picked them up along with their Arcici stands.

Then on to the rebuilding process - in total over maybe 10 years I rebuilt at least 50 panels. Used the Australian (or maybe New Zealand rebuilding kits). Nice kits to work with - their diaphragm tensoning scheme worked pretty nicely. Along the way made every mistake possible but did end up with more than a few good panels. Even made up a 4-panel Quad center channel sub-woofer - using cabinetry from the folks near Washington DC.

Saw every production problem - yes unglued stators BUT Quad did apparently change glues from time to time. Some dried out and let go, others didn't. If the stator has come unglued in a corner you may be able to reglue it and get it back into place using a straightened out paperclip with an end bent 90 degrees - but it's tricky to manuever - BE CAREFUL

Panels worked for a while but then started having enough problems that I gave up. Even had trouble with the panels I got from the now-deceased guy in Florida.

If I learned anything: DON'T use these if you don't have air conditioning. AND DON'T leave them on all the time. Conductive coating on the mylar is probably HYDROSCOPIC. Rebuilders all have their "special sauce" that they use. I would ask for at LEASE a one or maybe two year warranty on any panel. As anyone who has tried it the speakers are a real pain to get into - and of course, the bad panel is on the bottom requiring unsoldering all the wires from the delay lines.

Otherwise, you may not find a more beautiful-sounding (mostly) LOUDspeaker

O yeah - the panels DON't wear out all at once. The guy who bought my original (old) 63's the ones with the black colored panels - most of them are still working after 30 years or so. When a hole does burn thru on the mylar, you'll know it

 

[godofwealth]

My Quad 57s remain my favorite Quads. Bought it around 15 years ago for around $1500. Works perfectly even though it is 50+ years old. I would not sell it even if you offered me $15,000. I listen to it every morning in a comfy chair 3-4 feet from one loudspeaker sitting off center. Yet it delights me in a way no loudspeaker ever has over the past 35+ years.

 

[jonathanhorwich]

My Quad 57s remain my favorite Quads. Bought it around 15 years ago for around $1500. Works perfectly even though it is 50+ years old. I would not sell it even if you offered me $15,000. I listen to it every morning in a comfy chair 3-4 feet from one loudspeaker sitting off center. Yet it delights me in a way no loudspeaker ever has over the past 35+ years.


View attachment 106837

100% agree.

 

[Dogberry]

Isn't that just it? Once you hear a Quad ESL you aren't going to be happy with anything else. My 989's went back and forth to Ontario (from NS) like a damn yo-yo, but I couldn't give them up. The 2905s that replaced them lasted 11 years before the first panel failure, and I have replaced two and have another three failed. Hence biting the bullet and replacing the lot.

 

[Dogberry]

Long wait for them, but ten panels just turned up a few minutes ago. Now I have to wait for my repair guy to have space for the speakers and I'll drive them over to him. Still hoping he'll let me photograph the first one being replaced so others can see what it involves. He won't be able to do all ten while I wait.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Long wait for them, but ten panels just turned up a few minutes ago. Now I have to wait for my repair guy to have space for the speakers and I'll drive them over to him. Still hoping he'll let me photograph the first one being replaced so others can see what it involves. He won't be able to do all ten while I wait.

Thanks for the update. I hope you'll be able to catch some photos. I'd love to see them.

 

[Dogberry]

I'll do my best. I've not found any photos or video of such a replacement. It isn't dreadfully hard to do, but amateurs like me need to see the process before trying it out. I'm hoping this will remove all worry about the speakers for the next 10-12 years (maybe more if manufacturing and materials have improved), and that should make it no longer my problem at that point!

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

I'll do my best. I've not found any photos or video of such a replacement. It isn't dreadfully hard to do, but amateurs like me need to see the process before trying it out. I'm hoping this will remove all worry about the speakers for the next 10-12 years (maybe more if manufacturing and materials have improved), and that should make it no longer my problem at that point!

Yes, that is something with a mystery around it, but in practise I heard it's not rocket science. You just need an idea of what you are doing and a steady hand.

 

[Dogberry]

Finally, the job is done. I took some photos and saved them with some basic instructions in a rather inelegant PDF:

https://drmoss.ca/Quad_2905_Repair.pdf

 

[Dogberry]

Some more details are shown in this video (but on 4 panel ESL63 speakers):

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Some more details are shown in this video (but on 4 panel ESL63 speakers):

Thank you for the links! Super cool! I love the "spring wires", great for reliability. Otherwise, the vibrations would crack the solder joints and that would be a bad day.

 

[Fishfood]

My Quad 57s remain my favorite Quads. Bought it around 15 years ago for around $1500. Works perfectly even though it is 50+ years old. I would not sell it even if you offered me $15,000. I listen to it every morning in a comfy chair 3-4 feet from one loudspeaker sitting off center. Yet it delights me in a way no loudspeaker ever has over the past 35+ years.


View attachment 106837

What amplifier are you enjoying with them?

 

[Dogberry]

The photo shows an original Quad II. I use the more modern Quad II/forty amps.

Curiously, the 45W integrated amp the tech used to test the repaired 2905 speakers cut out into protection mode after playing for 15 seconds.
Damned silicon!

 

[Fishfood]

The photo shows an original Quad II. I use the more modern Quad II/forty amps.

Curiously, the 45W integrated amp the tech used to test the repaired 2905 speakers cut out into protection mode after playing for 15 seconds.
Damned silicon!

Couldn't handle the 1 ohm impedance. I really miss my 57s. Just waiting until we move to get another pair from Kent at Electrostatic Solutions. My favorite amp with them is the ASR Emitter but doubt I'll have room for those giant batteries this time....

 

[Dogberry]

The 2905 speakers are said by Quad to have an impedance variation of 4-20?, and nominal is 8?. I've wondered about connecting them to the 4? speaker outputs instead of the 8. Any advantage anyone knows of, or potential harm?

 

[godofwealth]

After many iterations, the best amplifier I’ve found for my 2905s is a JJ 323 SET — a 90 pound beast of an amplifier that uses a parallel pair of 300B tubes per channel to deliver about 15-20 watts. The sound is beautiful — the 2905s can sound a bit clinical when driven by most solid state amplifiers.

 

[godofwealth]

What amplifier are you enjoying with them?

I’ve tried them with lots of different amplifiers from the original Quad IIs to the solid state Quad 303s. Currently I use a pair of tube Quicksilver 8417 mono blocks. Mine don’t have any protection circuits, so if you use a high powered amplifier, you have to be gentle with the volume control. The 57s have that rare quality where they sound great even at whisper quiet levels. Most audiophile speakers sound pretty awful at low volumes since big woofer cones need a lot of power to come to life. You can also listen to the 57s from one to three feet away. Don’t try that with your monster Wilson or Magico’s, which will sound incoherent at that distance. And you can place them anywhere, even in tiny rooms. I’ve heard them in tiny rooms and huge rooms, up close and at a long distance. They always bring a smile to my face.

 

[microstrip]

The 2905 speakers are said by Quad to have an impedance variation of 4-20?, and nominal is 8?. I've wondered about connecting them to the 4? speaker outputs instead of the 8. Any advantage anyone knows of, or potential harm?

When using Audio Reseach tubes I always used the ESL63 with the 8 ohm taps. They are around 4 ohm only in the last octave where in general instrumental music has low power. VTL and conrad johnson were internally wired to around 5 ohm, so I had no choice!

I know some reviewers suggest the 4 ohm taps.