"Do Vinyl Records Actually Sound Better Than CDs? We Take A Closer Look" in Slashgear

[the sound of Tao]

Using streaming services is extremely simple these days.

I use a WiiM Pro. It is "plug and play". All you need to do is install the app on your phone (you could even do without) and you are good to go. If you want to use streaming services, that's all you need. If you want to use local files, it is fairly easy to install a server (LMS, UPNP, Roon...) - provided you know your way around computers (I know that can be a problem for some).

The quality will depend essentially on your DAC.

Using the Toslink output of the WiiM Pro, I personally don't hear any differences with a CD player (using the same tracks) or with any other form of digital playback.

Similarly, I've heard (written reports) that the MSB DACs give excellent results as well with very basic sources, which become indistinguishable from more expensive sources, meaning that you don't need to tinker and tweak any longer...

There’s huge variability in approaches in digital setups… the more hi end tends to involve highly evolved approaches and simple isn’t reflective of the trend at all. If you look through typical hi end computer audio threads… I mentioned Wadax and Taiko but all the best regarded server brands can apply here. An iPhone is simple and can stream but I’m pointing towards the hi end. CD players and CD transports are typically much simpler for setup.

 

[hopkins]

There’s huge variability in approaches in digital setups… the more hi end tends to involve highly evolved approaches and simple isn’t reflective of the trend at all. If you look through typical hi end computer audio threads… I mentioned Wadax and Taiko but all the best regarded server brands can apply here. An iPhone is simple and can stream but I’m pointing towards the hi end. CD players and CD transports are typically much simpler for setup.

You say that high end "tends to involve highly evolved approaches and simple isn't reflective of the trend at all". Well, I've read user reports that the MSB DACs with the Reference Digital Director - for example - are effective in reducing source dependency - which contradicts your statement. Is MSB "high end" enough for you?

 

[the sound of Tao]

You say that high end "tends to involve highly evolved approaches and simple isn't reflective of the trend at all". Well, I've read user reports that the MSB DACs with the Reference Digital Director - for example - are effective in reducing source dependency - which contradicts your statement. Is MSB "high end" enough for you?

I really don’t think that because a design goes through a pairing back approach means that what they are doing is ultimately simple… have you looked inside the MSB tech.

It’s about implementation and if you look at what users who are mostly tending to do in setting up their computer and file based audio systems with multiple switches, multiple separate power supplies, mixing in optical fibre boxes, specialist cables and connectivity like with Wadax and Taiko… much of it costing a lot… I don’t see that an area of some simplification equates to simple. If you think it does represent the approach overall these days all good.

 

[tima]

Convenience” is kind of a petty word to be associated with listening to music, imho. Not to be grandiose about it, but I relate to music as more of a spiritual quest and exploration.

You know I was talking about using streaming not about listening to music in a general sense. If someone said streaming is an inconvenient way to play music, you'd likely whine about that as well. Ideologues can accept only high praise.

I tend to get up out of the chair every 20 minutes, like I used to do in my LP days.

But not to change out tangible media. Streaming gives you that choice. -- another aspect of its convenience.

 

[wil]

You know I was talking about using streaming not about listening to music in a general sense. If someone said streaming is an inconvenient way to play music, you'd likely whine about that as well. Ideologues can accept only high praise.



But not to change out tangible media. Streaming gives you that choice. -- another aspect of its convenience.

I’m not whining. Another word you chose to use that I don’t agree with. I won’t try to explain it to you again as I just think you’re being duplicitous. Time to move on

 

[hopkins]

I really don’t think that because a design goes through a pairing back approach means that what they are doing is ultimately simple… have you looked inside the MSB tech.

I was not referring to the design of the DACs, which is indeed "complex" - but as end users, we don't have to worry about that.

It’s about implementation and if you look at what users who are mostly tending to do in setting up their computer and file based audio systems with multiple switches, multiple separate power supplies, mixing in optical fibre boxes, specialist cables and connectivity like with Wadax and Taiko… much of it costing a lot… I don’t see that an area of some simplification equates to simple. If you think it does represent the approach overall these days all good.

Yes, I think the trend will be towards better designed DACs that will render all these upstream "tweaks" obsolete. It's just something to look out for. The idea that you need all these solutions upstream of a DAC are so engrained in the audiophile "psyche" that people may not even be curious to try simpler solutions when they do use better designed DACs (like the latest MSB, from what I can tell - I think my DAC also falls in that category, but it is not costly enough to be credible in such a forum as this one!) - or they may simply decide to "throw money at a problem" without considering whether the "problem" is in fact still real. We'll see how things evolve.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I was not referring to the design of the DACs, which is indeed "complex" - but as end users, we don't have to worry about that.



Yes, I think the trend will be towards better designed DACs that will render all these upstream "tweaks" obsolete. It's just something to look out for. The idea that you need all these solutions upstream of a DAC are so engrained in the audiophile "psyche" that people may not even be curious to try simpler solutions when they do use better designed DACs (like the latest MSB, from what I can tell - I think my DAC also falls in that category, but it is not costly enough to be credible in such a forum as this one!) - or they may simply decide to "throw money at a problem" without considering whether the "problem" is in fact still real. We'll see how things evolve.

Some love more constant engagement in upgrading/tweaking… it’s not always considered inconvenient but can be for many a fundamental part of the joy of the process.

I started out trying to get digital to work for me better like many of us over 30 years ago… still going

But I have increasingly got things to a point where I can put more of my focus onto using my setup to expand my understanding more into music and put the technical and operational requirements of the system into a more balanced perspective… I figure none of this is static at all.

The life cycle phase of digital is still clearly in an expanding outward growth swing I’d figure. It’s still hardly convenient set and forget tech. CD is much more stabilised and generally a less demanding operational process… it’s awesome and preferable for many.

Analogue has the most scope for fine tuning, and server or file based digital approaches vary a lot. How much and how far we go with any format and how inconvenient or involving (depending on our needs) we make it is these days is largely up to us.

 

[PYP]

As it is for @wil , for me streaming is about music discovery. I rarely use the part of the library that was ripped from CDs long ago. There is just too much new content. If that appeals, streaming can be a lot of fun.

Streamers, control software and services such as Qobuz have improved enormously lately. I'm not saying the Grimm MU1 (which I owned previously) or MU2 (my current streamer/upsampler/DAC) are an endgame for the folks who typically look further upstream (cost-wise) for their solution, but these Grimm streamers are very immune to power and copper ethernet noise issues. That means less messing about with multiple switches and their associated power supplies, cables, etc. One could really start at this simple level and live with that for a good while. You can still feed your CD transport into them and the sound will be improved by the Grimm magic sauce. The MU2 provides an entire digital front end.

I thought it worth mentioning since some folks assume musical engagement will suffer if they don't too -- by endlessly adding and upgrading routers/switches/power supplies. If that is your thing, great and more power to you, but it shouldn't be assumed to be essential by those who haven't tried streaming yet. Solidly designed and implemented streamers should be plug-n-play.