Do you use cables to 'tune' the sonics of your system?

[audiobuff]

First...it's very refreshing to have a thread which talks about audio cables in a positive manner rather than trying to defend them from people who have never tried any or don't have the gear to justify trying any but have very strong opinions about them.
In my Opinion, if a cable is doing it's job...It should get the signal from point A to B without any change...which as it turns out is a very difficult endeavor. Also I find that certain cables do display a certain flavors that I have used to balance a system..kind of a tone control if you will.
I would like to make some general impressions on a couple of cable manufactures that i have used which i believe to have some very apparent tonal characteristics. Three Cable Manufactures that I have some experience with are Nordost, Cardas and M.I.T.
lets start with Cardas...I have not tried any of the new clear cables but have used many of their other cables..They are a very musical cable..they add some mid-bass that could be perceived as Warmth..that is the Cardas Magic that many people talk about...The Golden Cross being the most warm but even the Neutral reference have the same feel to a lesser degree.
All the Nordost cable i have tried are incredible fast...I believe they extenuate some of the higher frequencies which give them a open / detailed sound. ...Very fast and The further up the line the more information becomes audible. I have heard these described as cold but I'm not sure if that is a fair description..I find them incredibly smooth and honest.
The M.I.T. Cables have those magic boxes that are designed to add to the signal and they definitely do. Not exactly sure how they work but they add something to the full spectrum..not sure if it's a phase alignment or what but they are full and expand the sound stage. I'd say about twice the size in my set up...which works very well for 90% of music...An occasion they can sound artifical or even a bit annoying but for most things they work great.
Let me just add that this is what I've found in my experience... Just making some general statements of what have found to be true.
Another note: I have been fortunate to have a couple of Audio buddies that have been in the hobby for a whle and have been able to try out a bunch of stuff for free. I first got into the hobby about 6 years ago now....My early set up was simple..an integrated amp / sacd Player & speakers...You can definitly out cable your system...To make a long story short...I used Nordost Frey interconnects and tried the TYR with absolutlely no apparent improvement...I moved to better components /seperates and tried the TYR's and the change was shocking apparent. Abde abdee abdee...That's all Folks !

 

[AudioExplorations]

Audiobuff, welcome to WBF! Thanks for the perspective (I currently use Nordost Frey myself).

 

[microstrip]

At same point I owned monoblocks and decided to to get the cables out of the way as much as possible - I soldered the amplifier internal output wire to fork plugs that I connected directly to the speaker connectors. Unhappily it sounded worse than using a good quality speaker cable. So I must say I use the cables to tune my system.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yes i use very long cables , the more cable improvement the better .

Microstrip , i think it was either the forkquality or the soldering .


PS when do we get the Aida review ????

 

[microstrip]

PS when do we get the Aida review ????

After I get them operating properly. I am changing the acoustic treatment of my listening room and it is taking a lot of time and effort. I am thrilled by the sound quality of the Aida´s - some of the best recorded voices I have ever listened to in a speaker, nuanced and correct treble, they disappear as no other speaker I have owned and have the proper scale, but still did not manage to integrate them fully in my room and system. I tuned my room for the SoundLabs A1s -very large dipoles, needing cancellation of the back wave, and had some specific acoustic treatment in the room. The Aida's need almost the opposite .

Short experiences with different amplifiers also keep me busy - perhaps the true reason why the room is taking so much time! I was not aware of the bass quality of the Aida's until I used them with the Devialet. But the purity of the sound of my current Audio Research is hard to beat.

Still also looking for the proper cables. And probably I will have a good surprise this weekend!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Good luck , i look forward reading the diffs compared to the maxx3 s

 

[bblue]

I should add that much of the differences, but not all, between cables, hell even components, is reduced when one addresses AC line issues. For instance, much of the bass/transparrency issues with cables isn't the cable's fault but the AC line. So the cable is only telling you what's going on.upstream and thus is really more neutral than we think.

Not only AC line issues, but moreso grounding procedures (or lack of them) make a *huge* difference in the sound of amps and preamps -- heck, any active device. It matters which kind of interconnect cables you use (as far as their wiring topology is concerned) and how they interact with particular pieces of equipment depending on how their grounds are handled internally.

There are scores of documents by reputable designers and engineers about specific ground related issues, how they should be dealt with to minimize shield currents, RF interference and other audio affecting issues. Even the 'standard' and 'preferred' star grounding technique can be thrown off course by a mismatch of cabling to the equipment being used. It's true with both balanced XLR connections as well as unbalanced connections.

If the equipment pieces are interconnected with cables that take into account their specific ground current flow, you'll get the best results and the greatest stability. In many cases, adding a 10-12 gauge fine-stranded ground connection between each chassis of interconnected equipment will improve detail immensely. For example, between the preamp and power amp, the same length as the audio leads between them, between the preamp and phono stage the same length as that interconnect set, etc. This is in addition to a good AC ground (third wire of the AC Cable) connection to each piece of equipment and the AC outlet. One might think 'ground loop', but it's only a loop if there are currents flowing in all shields as a result of the additional connection. In this case, we're isolating current between chassis as being resolved through a direct connection rather than the audio shield or AC safety ground.

Anyway, it goes deeper than that, but many systems will benefit from just that much.

--Bill

 

[Nicholas Bedworth]

The MIT "interfaces" really seem quite different, in a positive sense, than all the other cables that have gone through my systems. And many of them have been very good indee. Bruce suggests that this interfaces are optimized at a number of frequencies, and my subjective experience is that this seems to be the case. Everywhere along the spectrum, the music (timbre wise) sounds just right. And the sounstaging, dynamics, etc., are exceptional as well.

It's remarkable, and one could learn a lot by borrowing some samples from their lending library (www.equusaudio.com).

With good electronics and speakers, it's pretty easy to sort cables into various colorations, in my experience.

 

[nirodha]

The MIT "interfaces" really seem quite different, in a positive sense, than all the other cables that have gone through my systems. And many of them have been very good indee. Bruce suggests that this interfaces are optimized at a number of frequencies, and my subjective experience is that this seems to be the case. Everywhere along the spectrum, the music (timbre wise) sounds just right. And the sounstaging, dynamics, etc., are exceptional as well.

It's remarkable, and one could learn a lot by borrowing some samples from their lending library (www.equusaudio.com).

With good electronics and speakers, it's pretty easy to sort cables into various colorations, in my experience.

I agree about MIT. MIT makes the choice of cables easy. I am using MAX rev. 2 throughout and finally arrived in a situation in which truth of tone and transparancy became a reality. However, I do not use MIT powercables since they were bested (big time!) by Elrod cables.
Wim

 

[LL21]

...after having two or three boxes of cables filled up, I have settled on Transparent Reference IC's. Hardly "transparent" compared to the other cables but still the best of the bunch. As far as tuning my system? They stopped at the Reference.
Tom

+1 for me. Have owned TA Ref/Ref XL for nearly 7 years...just did a cashless upgrade via equipment trade to XLMM2 on my speaker cables. i was not even looking for the upgrade, except that i had some old equipment i wanted to sell and found trading in for upgrades/cashless trades was easier with my local dealer and i ended up with a really nice upgrade.

 

[treitz3]

Cashless upgrade? Sweet! Congratulations on the upgrade. If you ever do offer your observations on the changes, I'll be all ears. That's one Transparent cable I haven't gotten my ears on yet.

Tom

 

[LL21]

Cashless upgrade? Sweet! Congratulations on the upgrade. If you ever do offer your observations on the changes, I'll be all ears. That's one Transparent cable I haven't gotten my ears on yet.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Here are my observations after fully burning in the Transp Ref XL MM2 cables (vs my older TA Ref with XL Cables):

- The main differences are in the upper mids thru the treble where, by comparison, the much older TA Ref sounded coarse. Upper violins in particular shine thru with a burnished tone whereas you get a slight stridency with the older TA. Now, with XL MM2, the upper 'screech' of violins on some 'poor recordings' actually becomes a very high note, an intense tone, and a far better decay of the note...i was quite surprised by this.

- The other main difference is in the noise floor...as a result of much quieter background, you get 2 things: far greater separation/focus which allows various elements of an ensemble to play together, but be enjoyed separately. The other is that throughout the entire spectrum, even the bass, there is more signal and less ''silent grunge" that as we all have experienced...is never noticed...until it is gone.

Numerically? Treble is about 75% better...i know, i know...what does that mean?! The mids are better...but mainly due to more natural tonality, ease, quieter noise floor...maybe 35%. Bass slightly more detailed/extended...30%. The overall quieter noise floor...maybe 50%-65%. The way i come up with these numbers is i score the old one in my head and re-score the new ones in my head...the percentage above is how much higher one score is than the other.

I found a much greater difference in speaker cables than in IC...i trialed an Opus MM2 interconnect. way better...but not as much of a margin as i was expecting for the huge increase in cost. Whereas the XL MM2 speaker cables were a far greater jump on an absolute basis...but also on a cost basis.

Finally, NEVER judge this cable til 200 hours...TA was right when they warned me...it is very good at first...goes thru some patchiness...starts getting really good...falters...and then just around 210-220 hours...boom. It all fell into place. TBH, i did not burn in the Opus IC fully...probably 100 hours but just was not interested enuf to keep burning and returned the trial piece (which had been calibrated to my equipment). i dont think i made a mistake per se...i was not getting blown away at any time for the cost of Opus IC.

That's my two cents...Ask if any further questions!

 

[AudioExplorations]

What do the boxes on the MIT And Transparent cables actually do? I have read the marketing blah blah but from user experience do they have any real meaningful function and so what is it?

 

[treitz3]

Wow, great write up of your observations. There are some things that you commented on that are extremely important to me and because of the various cables and subsequent upgrades I have had to play with, I know exactly what you mean when you say that you never notice until it's gone. Some of the things you mentioned are also some of my gripes that I am looking to improve upon, so your observations hit home with me. I do appreciate you taking the time to answer so thoroughly, thank you.

It's hard to believe that the noise floor can still be further improved upon but I have to believe it, as I have experienced this before along my upgrade path. The additional aspects of a quieter noise floor brings so much more to the reproduction and that is something that I would look forward too. Even if I have no current complaints or gripes about the noise floor right now.

I do have a couple of further questions for you, if you don't mind me asking. At what volume levels are the things that you commented on happening? All, extremely low, concert level, moderate, talking level or certain volumes in between?

 

[LL21]

Wow, great write up of your observations. There are some things that you commented on that are extremely important to me and because of the various cables and subsequent upgrades I have had to play with, I know exactly what you mean when you say that you never notice until it's gone. Some of the things you mentioned are also some of my gripes that I am looking to improve upon, so your observations hit home with me. I do appreciate you taking the time to answer so thoroughly, thank you.

It's hard to believe that the noise floor can still be further improved upon but I have to believe it, as I have experienced this before along my upgrade path. The additional aspects of a quieter noise floor brings so much more to the reproduction and that is something that I would look forward too. Even if I have no current complaints or gripes about the noise floor right now.

I do have a couple of further questions for you, if you don't mind me asking. At what volume levels are the things that you commented on happening? All, extremely low, concert level, moderate, talking level or certain volumes in between?

Ask away...this is what i really am here for...to enjoy talking about something we're all passionate about. ALL levels...now that is not really down to just the cable. In my own personal experience (ie my own system)...what has happened due to 2 major changes...is that my entire system has become extremely low in distortion. Some great equipment choices...but also frankly some dumb luck.

I first got the Wilson X1/Grand Slamms. Then i ended up upgrading my CJ and Gryphon to the GAT and the Colosseum...as soon as that happened, i noticed i was consistently turning the volume DOWN...because i could hear everything at lower volume levels. That was the first time i have ever done this in 20+ years.

Now, of course, since this has happened, when i got the upgrade of the XL MM2 speaker cables, i noticed these improvements at ALL volume levels...so to answer yoru question, the benefits are all there at every volume level...it is really up to the overall distortion level and noise floor of the system to allow you to hear it.

hope that is helpful.

 

[LL21]

What do the boxes on the MIT And Transparent cables actually do? I have read the marketing blah blah but from user experience do they have any real meaningful function and so what is it?

Would love to know...i just know i have no desire to look elsewhere. i have spent a smidgen of time hearing shunyata and nordost (not valhalla)...and frankly was not inspired to look further (not because of shunyata or nordost)...but because the TA stuff is so good, i just dont feel any need to look. and trust me, when i want to look, i dont need much incentive to do so! like many of us, i suspect!

 

[treitz3]

What do the boxes on the MIT And Transparent cables actually do? I have read the marketing blah blah but from user experience do they have any real meaningful function and so what is it?

That's a good question and I am definitely not the one to answer it. I will, however, echo lloydelee21's comments and add that of all of the cables I have tried out in my particular situation, I really appreciate what TA brings to the table. I don't know whether it's a synergy thing or not. What I do know is that TA does my rig justice and whatever is in that box works and works exceedingly well. I don't think that they are "transparent" [both the MIT's or the TA's] but with what they bring to the reproductive effort, the attributes FAR outweigh what deficiencies they have. IME, MIT's have slightly more of what I will call "coloring" when compared to the TA's. Both are really good cables IMO. I just happen to prefer the TA's. I do not know if you can get into the MIT lending library or not as I see that you live in Amsterdam but I would give it a shot. It definitely will not hurt to ask.

Here's a link to the LL application if you are interested. [[ http://www.mitcables.com/lendinglibraryform.html ]] As an added note, if you call them, they will be more than happy to answer any questions you might have. They are familiar with an incredible amount of gear and how each cable would tend to work within any given type of rig. A discussion of what you have, what you are looking to improve and general knowledge of your budget will yield a suggestion of the best cable(s) for your particular situation.

I have to run right now for lunch with the family but I will chime back in later today and offer some of my observations of the cables that have the "box" -vs- those that do not have the box, without the manufacturer hype. I'll just tell you my experiences with what I have observed and what they bring to the table for me.

...as soon as that happened, I noticed I was consistently turning the volume DOWN...because I could hear everything at lower volume levels...

I do love this aspect of the reproduction. I would estimate that in the past 12 years of my audio journey, the volume level has probably dropped by 40%. I very rarely see the need to go up above 10:30 on the volume knob now, when before I would go up above 12:30 often. At 10:30, it is very authoritative while not overloaded or overpondering and I'm enjoying the entire spectrum even when it's set at 8:00. Of course, this is all recording dependent but I do really appreciate the fact that my rig can accomplish this. I'm sure my wife appreciates this aspect as well.

hope that is helpful.

Yes, is was. Consistency at all volume levels is another factor that is important to me.

Tom

 

[andromedaaudio]

If somebody told you the magic was gone , therefore it has to be a secret whats in the box , secrets sell !!!
I ve put the grindingcutter machine in a few of there lowerpriced boxes , very strong plastic i can tell you that, what i found remains a secret !!

What do the boxes on the MIT And Transparent cables actually do? I have read the marketing blah blah but from user experience do they have any real meaningful function and so what is it?

 

[rockitman]

There's no secrets to the boxes...it's all about impedance matching from what I understand.

 

[andromedaaudio]

No , the ones i opened up were simple tone controls , cutting of high freq with either a iron core coil in series or cap/resistor parallel.
The one with the coil in the signal path will certainly disrupt the intended speaker FR balance ( will change X over behavior ), so yes this cable will indeed sound " different "