There's nothing confusing in it.
It is a valid way of making an intermediate enhancement to what was a formerly single-ended inter-connection with an RCA. The RCA 'shield-is-also-return' is a very flawed implementation.
Do you use XLR or RCA single ended to your near speaker located amps?
- Thread starter Folsom
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There's nothing confusing in it.
It is a valid way of making an intermediate enhancement to what was a formerly single-ended inter-connection with an RCA. The RCA 'shield-is-also-return' is a very flawed implementation.
If you have found that balanced sound less good than RCA, there could be a weird issue in your system. You have to check for the balanced 'Pin 1 problem' in that case.
Floating, Pseudo, and Quasi-Balancing modes are confusing to audiophiles, and many times incorrectly used. Just use google to find the number of people asking for clarification on this subject, even in professional forums.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
For the folks who have SE, why do you think you have to qualify your answer about its sound reproduction?
There really shouldn't be a sound difference between the two!
There really shouldn't be a sound difference between the two!
Many times it is just a question of preference in the whole system. Long ago, at my Jeff Rowland and Krell days we tried balanced and unbalanced with the same brand of XLR and RCA cables. They sounded rather different in the different modes and sometimes there was no consensus between listeners.
For that assessment to be taken into consideration, it should be known and mentioned whether the equipment had the Pin 1 issue or not...
There are all sorts of questions about everything. Doesn't mean everything is confusing...
In fact it is quite simple: pseudo-balanced is not true balanced. In that respect, it doesn't provide as good a signal-to-noise ration as true balanced.
Nothing confusing about it, and all very logical considering how it's named.
Agreed. I use the XLRs because I am concerned about the length and the security of the physical connections on my 10m runs.
I use 8 meters of 'zeel' interconnects between the darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp, and the NHB-458 mono block amplifiers.
the 'zeel' is a single ended cable, but instead of RCA plugs, it uses the mechanically superior BNC interface. and; instead of 75 ohms it uses 50 ohms. the 'zeel' interface is 'said' to sound exactly the same (a little better than conventional interconnects) no matter what the length up to .5 kilometer. it is claimed that having a properly executed 'perfect' 50 ohm output and input eliminates smearing and echo's otherwise present in conventional interconnects.
over an 11 year period of my observation it has been my experience that the claims for the 'zeel' interface are true......but that is just my 2 cents, YMMV, and all that stuff.
the 'zeel' is a single ended cable, but instead of RCA plugs, it uses the mechanically superior BNC interface. and; instead of 75 ohms it uses 50 ohms. the 'zeel' interface is 'said' to sound exactly the same (a little better than conventional interconnects) no matter what the length up to .5 kilometer. it is claimed that having a properly executed 'perfect' 50 ohm output and input eliminates smearing and echo's otherwise present in conventional interconnects.
over an 11 year period of my observation it has been my experience that the claims for the 'zeel' interface are true......but that is just my 2 cents, YMMV, and all that stuff.
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Pseudo balanced as implemented by Lamm is not even balanced. Some pseudo-balanced implementations are impedance balanced. If you prefer to ignore these differences life becomes very simple ...
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
If Vladimir calls it pseudo balanced what can I call it
For me I use XLR cable for the strength of the terminations vs RCA. TO me it is an elaborate SE cable with XLR terminations, nothing more
For me I use XLR cable for the strength of the terminations vs RCA. TO me it is an elaborate SE cable with XLR terminations, nothing more
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I totally agree Bruce. What I was implying was that there is no drop out with a 9 meter cable
A pseudo anything is never the real thing.
A pseudo diamond isn't a diamond.
Pseudo gold isn't gold.
A pseudo girl isn't a girl at all...
I believe the ground is also a shield, which means they reject more RF than other SE cables.
I just wanted to know if SE were popular enough for me to invest time in, for something that blocks noise (RF) and makes SE perform as well or better than XLR in that regard.
These arguments, this time in the guise of a poll, are largely pointless and irrelevant. The requirements for signal distribution in a studio or professional environment are different than what is needed in a home audio system. Recording studios and post production labs have multiple components that capture, transmit and manipulate the audio signal and the various components can be very far apart. For these environments, true balanced lines with differential signaling help prevent the introduction of external EMI/RFI to the audio signal.
In a home audio system many components do not have balanced inputs or outputs. So the only possible method of signal interconnection is through a single-ended interface which usually means, RCA, BNC or phone jack connectors. So, for these systems the relevant question would be how to maximize signal integrity and minimize the introduction of noise and hum. This can be accomplished by using cables specifically designed for single-ended transmission and by keeping the cables relatively short. Generally, it is best to keep cables under 3 meters in length however lengths over 10 meters are possible without any problems.
Home audio components that have XLR connectors may or may not have "balanced interfaces". There needs to be a definition of terms first. We need to discuss the three elements involved in a signal transmisison. There is the sending interface, the interconnecting cable and the receiving interface. Lets start with the receiving interface. It is designed to receive a symetrical differential signal. This signal is fed to a driver that amplifies only the difference between to hot(+) and cold(-) signal wires. Common mode noise is therefore eliminated. But this is only true IF the signal that arrives at the input to the receiving interface is actually "symetrical". In a balanced transmission there are two signal wires. Both carry the signal but they are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. They must each have exactly the same impedance to ground. This also means that the sending interface must send a symetrical signal. Only if the sending interface sends a symetrical signal AND the interconnecting cable preserve that symetrical signal integrity AND the receiving interface is a differential interface designed to receive a symetrical signal will the potential benefits of "balanced transmission" be realised.
In a pro environment the equipment is usually designed with true differential interfaces. In home audio it is all over the map - there is no consistently used standard across brands and manufacturers.
Shocker: Balanced connections don't necessarily sound the best if your equipment has both options available. Most electronics circuits are not differential through the amplification stages even if they provide balanced connections. To output a differential signal, the signal must be run through an audio transformer or through a buffer stage that creates a positive and negative differential signal. There are no perfect transformers and the extra differential stage can degrade the absolute signal purity as compared to a simple signal-ground output. This is why many designers of tube equipment only provide single-ended connections.
There is much more to it but that is enough for now I think.
In a home audio system many components do not have balanced inputs or outputs. So the only possible method of signal interconnection is through a single-ended interface which usually means, RCA, BNC or phone jack connectors. So, for these systems the relevant question would be how to maximize signal integrity and minimize the introduction of noise and hum. This can be accomplished by using cables specifically designed for single-ended transmission and by keeping the cables relatively short. Generally, it is best to keep cables under 3 meters in length however lengths over 10 meters are possible without any problems.
Home audio components that have XLR connectors may or may not have "balanced interfaces". There needs to be a definition of terms first. We need to discuss the three elements involved in a signal transmisison. There is the sending interface, the interconnecting cable and the receiving interface. Lets start with the receiving interface. It is designed to receive a symetrical differential signal. This signal is fed to a driver that amplifies only the difference between to hot(+) and cold(-) signal wires. Common mode noise is therefore eliminated. But this is only true IF the signal that arrives at the input to the receiving interface is actually "symetrical". In a balanced transmission there are two signal wires. Both carry the signal but they are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. They must each have exactly the same impedance to ground. This also means that the sending interface must send a symetrical signal. Only if the sending interface sends a symetrical signal AND the interconnecting cable preserve that symetrical signal integrity AND the receiving interface is a differential interface designed to receive a symetrical signal will the potential benefits of "balanced transmission" be realised.
In a pro environment the equipment is usually designed with true differential interfaces. In home audio it is all over the map - there is no consistently used standard across brands and manufacturers.
Shocker: Balanced connections don't necessarily sound the best if your equipment has both options available. Most electronics circuits are not differential through the amplification stages even if they provide balanced connections. To output a differential signal, the signal must be run through an audio transformer or through a buffer stage that creates a positive and negative differential signal. There are no perfect transformers and the extra differential stage can degrade the absolute signal purity as compared to a simple signal-ground output. This is why many designers of tube equipment only provide single-ended connections.
There is much more to it but that is enough for now I think.
Same here as far as using single ended Lamm gear. When I rotate to CH I get to use the same cables but this time fully balanced. All there is to it really.
I would've closed the thread and just had a poll if it was an option... there is no guise. In fact I think you're downright insulting for saying otherwise. That is especially since you bother to preclude that way and then continue to post a lengthy bit after.
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