Do you use XLR or RCA single ended to your near speaker located amps?

[dminches]

9m balanced XLR run

I am in the same boat. Which cable are you using? I am using Audioquest Earth. I would like to upgrade but we all know what 9M pairs cost.

 

[Bruce B]

I am in the same boat. Which cable are you using? I am using Audioquest Earth. I would like to upgrade but we all know what 9M pairs cost.

JPS Labs Aluminata

I've also gotten good results with Mogami Gold

 

[thedudeabides]

Shocker: Balanced connections don't necessarily sound the best if your equipment has both options available. Most electronics circuits are not differential through the amplification stages even if they provide balanced connections. To output a differential signal, the signal must be run through an audio transformer or through a buffer stage that creates a positive and negative differential signal. There are no perfect transformers and the extra differential stage can degrade the absolute signal purity as compared to a simple signal-ground output. This is why many designers of tube equipment only provide single-ended connections.

I believe that's why Conrad Johnson and other hi end companies use only single ended connections and is "out of phase" at the preamp output requiring the user to switch polarity at the speaker cable amp or speaker terminal connection. Latter preferred from what I've read.

 

[DaveC]

Steve,

Pseudo balanced is a confusing and non standard mode. In Lamms they are simply XLR plugs used with pin 3 shorted to ground. It means it will short the output of the previous balanced driving stage - it can be a very bad think with some electronics. However when using a Lamm preamplifier it allows us to correctly use a XLR cable. BTW, some manufacturers use a resistor of equal value to the device input or output impedance to shunt pin 3 to ground.

As far as I found, the hybrid Lamm amplifiers have real balanced inputs.

And some just leave pin 3 unterminated... I like the resistor to pin1 though, seems like the best way to go short of a transformer.

 

[DaveC]

If you have found that balanced sound less good than RCA, there could be a weird issue in your system. You have to check for the balanced 'Pin 1 problem' in that case.

Nah, it depends on component implementation. Some components that are single ended yet still have XLR outputs use opamp circuits to derive the balanced signal, in this case single ended will sound better, no weird issues required.

 

[DaveC]

I use 8 meters of 'zeel' interconnects between the darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp, and the NHB-458 mono block amplifiers.

the 'zeel' is a single ended cable, but instead of RCA plugs, it uses the mechanically superior BNC interface. and; instead of 75 ohms it uses 50 ohms. the 'zeel' interface is 'said' to sound exactly the same (a little better than conventional interconnects) no matter what the length up to .5 kilometer. it is claimed that having a properly executed 'perfect' 50 ohm output and input eliminates smearing and echo's otherwise present in conventional interconnects.

over an 11 year period of my observation it has been my experience that the claims for the 'zeel' interface are true......but that is just my 2 cents, YMMV, and all that stuff.

Are you talking digital or analog? This all has to do with digital cabling, not analog.

 

[DaveC]

These arguments, this time in the guise of a poll, are largely pointless and irrelevant. The requirements for signal distribution in a studio or professional environment are different than what is needed in a home audio system. Recording studios and post production labs have multiple components that capture, transmit and manipulate the audio signal and the various components can be very far apart. For these environments, true balanced lines with differential signaling help prevent the introduction of external EMI/RFI to the audio signal.

In a home audio system many components do not have balanced inputs or outputs. So the only possible method of signal interconnection is through a single-ended interface which usually means, RCA, BNC or phone jack connectors. So, for these systems the relevant question would be how to maximize signal integrity and minimize the introduction of noise and hum. This can be accomplished by using cables specifically designed for single-ended transmission and by keeping the cables relatively short. Generally, it is best to keep cables under 3 meters in length however lengths over 10 meters are possible without any problems.

Home audio components that have XLR connectors may or may not have "balanced interfaces". There needs to be a definition of terms first. We need to discuss the three elements involved in a signal transmisison. There is the sending interface, the interconnecting cable and the receiving interface. Lets start with the receiving interface. It is designed to receive a symetrical differential signal. This signal is fed to a driver that amplifies only the difference between to hot(+) and cold(-) signal wires. Common mode noise is therefore eliminated. But this is only true IF the signal that arrives at the input to the receiving interface is actually "symetrical". In a balanced transmission there are two signal wires. Both carry the signal but they are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. They must each have exactly the same impedance to ground. This also means that the sending interface must send a symetrical signal. Only if the sending interface sends a symetrical signal AND the interconnecting cable preserve that symetrical signal integrity AND the receiving interface is a differential interface designed to receive a symetrical signal will the potential benefits of "balanced transmission" be realised.

In a pro environment the equipment is usually designed with true differential interfaces. In home audio it is all over the map - there is no consistently used standard across brands and manufacturers.

Shocker: Balanced connections don't necessarily sound the best if your equipment has both options available. Most electronics circuits are not differential through the amplification stages even if they provide balanced connections. To output a differential signal, the signal must be run through an audio transformer or through a buffer stage that creates a positive and negative differential signal. There are no perfect transformers and the extra differential stage can degrade the absolute signal purity as compared to a simple signal-ground output. This is why many designers of tube equipment only provide single-ended connections.

There is much more to it but that is enough for now I think.

Maybe not pointless, there is always a lot of confusion on the subject and these days we get a mish-mash of SE and Balanced components offered for home use.

Good comments though, especially the fact that one sounding better than another is not a RULE, it depends on the topology of the component.

------

IMO, for a home system balanced is overkill and a bit ridiculous but it can still work well. I enjoy my SET amplification, so no balanced for me... but for interfacing with DSP/Class D amps to power woofers or run my inefficient speakers with balanced amps, a good input balancing transformer is by far the best option imo.

 

[YashN]

Complex subject confirmed...