Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

[Steve Williams]

Steve, didn’t you also get an Etsuro Gold a few weeks back? What became of that?

Never worked out as it was too light to mount on the Graham Phantom Elite Arm. Went in a different direction and I am so thrilled I found this MSS. Tough for me to understand how the Gran Cru is sonically better

 

[heebrog]

What would be really interesting is comparing a recording where the LP and digital version is made with equal care and attention and using local playback on the Extreme instead of streaming.

 

[christoph]

The ZYX has been used by me many times to play this record and have always enjoyed it to the max.

There is a saying in german: "the better is the enemy of the good"

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Never worked out as it was too light to mount on the Graham Phantom Elite Arm. Went in a different direction and I am so thrilled I found this MSS. Tough for me to understand how the Gran Cru is sonically better

of course the Master Signature weighs less than the Etsuro Gold. but decisions are not always linear. we make one get to a spot, then make another decision from that spot.

and the cost of the Etsuro Gold is 'different' than the MS.

 

[Bobvin]

Never worked out as it was too light to mount on the Graham Phantom Elite Arm. Went in a different direction and I am so thrilled I found this MSS. Tough for me to understand how the Gran Cru is sonically better

Indeed, the Etsuro is much lighter than my Benz LPS, by nearly half! But I’ve heard from others it can be mounted / mated favorably with the 12” AMG tonearm.

Very happy to hear another cartridge out there is bringing someone sonic bliss. What exists encoded in the waveforms of a vinyl LP constantly amazes me, and it seems the art of cartridge design just keeps revealing more and more.

 

[Steve Williams]

Price was never an issue or a factor in my decision Mike. Sonically I feel I made the correct decision

 

[ALF]

Never worked out as it was too light to mount on the Graham Phantom Elite Arm. Went in a different direction and I am so thrilled I found this MSS. Tough for me to understand how the Gran Cru is sonically better

...IMHO, a LT would have been your best friend with the Etsuro Gold.

Steve, you are now in match heaven with the SME, vDH, and the internal SUT in your Lamm phonostage.

vbw,
-a

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Price was never an issue or a factor in my decision Mike. Sonically I feel I made the correct decision

and you should feel that way. enjoy your MS.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

...IMHO, a LT would have been your best friend with the Etsuro Gold.

Steve, you are now in match heaven with the SME, vDH, and the internal SUT in your Lamm phonostage.

vbw,
-a

your neighbor Billy likes both his Etsuro Gold's on different type arms; one on the Walker LT and one on the Field Coil pivot.

i like both mine too; one on a pivot, and one on a LT.

 

[Steve Williams]

...IMHO, a LT would have been your best friend with the Etsuro Gold.

Steve, you are now in match heaven with the SME, vDH, and the internal SUT in your Lamm phonostage.

vbw,
-a

Al

This final cartridge for me was the icing on my cake that truly has brought me to my end game

When I had the Etsuro I found that when compared to the ZYX it was more similar than different but the MSS is so different that it allows me the option of choice. I don't want 100 different choices on 16 different arms each with different cartridges.I know what I like and once I have it , it becomes a keeper in my system. That is where I am now with my system. I have virtually checked all of my to do lists and find nothing lacking. I also very pleased that when I compared the MSS to my favorite cartridge of his (Neumann), he replied that the MSS has disrupted his 20 year journey of collecting vintage cartridges. Needless to say I am also a believer in the tone arm that David uses exclusively. When I was at his house he had many handfuls of these arms. David's mantra has always been "above all it must sound natural". To my ears I am in complete agreement with that result when using this tonearm plus it is so much less expensive than any of the arms used by many

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Al

This final cartridge for me was the icing on my cake that truly has brought me to my end game

When I had the Etsuro I found that when compared to the ZYX it was more similar than different but the MSS is so different that it allows me the option of choice.

here....

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-of-steve-williams.10535/page-127#post-638030

.....you say....

we had to abandon attempts at mounting it as it was physically too light and incompatible with the Graham.

as an Etsuro Gold owner i'd be curious what happened. did it work with the Graham arm? or not? above you say you compared it to the ZYX.

i'm not disputing that the Etsuro Gold is more similar to the ZYX than the Master Sig. makes sense, as i owned the Master Sig. and i very briefly heard that ZYX in my system too.

 

[ddk]

well it's been another week and I have to admit that the lure of this vDH MSS cartridge is mesmerizing. It is as if I have been listening to my entire vinyl collection again but hearing detail in so many better ways

For the next few weeks the MSS will remain on the SME 3010R . Initially I was not only reluctant to switch these cartridges to opposite arms as the ZYX Premium was my reference and used almost 100% of my listening but I just was not prepared for the fact that this MSS is not only an amazingly excellent cartridge but it bests the ZYX in every way

For bass, dynamics, detail and a strong sense of presence along with a natural sound the MSS is in a league of its own IMHO.

Yesterday i spent the day not only comparing the 2 cartridges but also comparing the same music played streaming. As you all know the Taiko Extreme has for me changed the way I listen to music.The comparisons I did yesterday were somewhat sobering

One record that I use to compare mid bass is the Mercury Living Presence record by Janos Starker, side B, Kol Nidre


https://www.amazon.com/Dvorak-Concerto-Nidrei-Tchaikovsky-Variations/dp/B0000057KJ

This recording is also available on Tidal for streaming basic on Tidal i but I was aware that often classical music on Tidal is not always the best sonically

Having said that I spent more time comparing the cartridges.

First off I still love the ZYX Premium. It's going nowhere except to the 10" arm. It is a warmer cartridge than the MSS and lacks the bass finesse that the MSS brings to the table. What struck me immediately was that I could hear the vibration of the strings of his cello with the MSS but not with the ZYX. The ZYX has been used by me many times to play this record and have always enjoyed it to the max.

So how can I succinctly sum up the differences.Well first off the MSS is a cartridge built for classical music to the fullest degree as it fleshes out everything

The best way I can describe my listening experience to that recording is as follows......"listening with the ZYX is like listening to a wonderfully mastered recording of the event whereas listening to the MSS literally puts me at the event." This is something that I found astonishing

Finally playing the record streaming via Tidal was a clear third even though it too sounded darn good

The switch is going to happen in the next few weeks but the ZYX remains a keeper. I see it on softer passages, female voices or in
music where a little warmth is a good thing.

I discussed my findings with ddk who has said that this MSS is in the same league as his precious Neumann cartridge which I heard when I visited him. The Neumann has always been my favorite until I heard the MSS. David concurs that the MSS is in the same league. David whois a collector of vintage cartridges told me that the MSS has literally undone 20 years of his collecting vintage cartridges.

I'm no expert as most others are here but I know what my ears told me and this MSS cartridge is one that should be considered if you are looking for a new and amazing cartridge. Overall the sound is as natural as it gets with bass that is so articulate that as I said I could feel the vibration of every string with air around every string. This plus the fact that improving the bass for me has also always served to improve the top end sound. This was the case hear

If there is a downside (and it aint sibilance) it is the cantilever to this cartridge that is so long it looks like a sword and seems like an accident waiting to happen as the cartridge does not come with a stylus guard

It's great to see you enjoying this setup Steve, makes the effort all worthwhile! Mr. van den Hul's Master Sigs are a true milestone nearly 6 decades from the Neumann DST and we're finally there.

david

 

[PeterA]

of course the Master Signature weighs less than the Etsuro Gold. but decisions are not always linear. we make one get to a spot, then make another decision from that spot.

and the cost of the Etsuro Gold is 'different' than the MS.

That was my first thought as well Mike. But then I realized that he tried to Gold on the Graham arm and the VDH cartridge on the SME arm. The VDH cartridges are known to be a very good match on the SME arms as they are developed on the SME V arm.

Some may prefer the 30XX series of SME arms to the current series but all of the arms have similar effective mass. I specified both SME arms when getting my GC and MS.

I don’t know the specifics or the requirements for the best match for the Graham phantom arm. I presume the Etsuro gold was very well set up. perhaps it was just not a good match.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

That was my first thought as well Mike. But then I realized that he tried to Gold on the Graham arm and the VDH cartridge on the SME arm. The VDH cartridges are known to be a very good match on the SME arms as they are developed on the SME V arm.

Some may prefer the 30XX series of SME arms to the current series but all of the arms have similar effective mass. I specified both SME arms when getting my GC and MS.

I don’t know the specifics or the requirements for the best match for the Graham phantom arm. I presume the Etsuro gold was very well set up. perhaps it was just not a good match.

did you read the post #2631 two above yours? he did not have the vdh until after the Etsuro Gold left. and he said the Etsuro Gold........

was physically too light and incompatible with the Graham.

so hard to presume 'it was very well set up'.

 

[PeterA]

did you read the post #2631 two above yours? he did not have the vdh until after the Etsuro Gold left. and he said the Etsuro Gold........



so hard to presume 'it was very well set up'.

Yes Mike. I did read that and I understand fully that he had the cartridges at different times. I also understand the Etsuro gold cartridge is heavier than the vdH cartridge. The two cartridges were never on the same arm. It’s possible both cartridges are too light for that Graham arm. I don’t really know. I’m pretty sure the guy who set up the cartridge did a good job and if Steve says the cartridge and arm were not compatible I take him at his word.

Now if he had tried the Etsuro gold cartridge on the SME arm he would have a better idea about the differences between the two cartridges and maybe like them equally well. I don’t know because that was a test that never occurred.

Edit: Mike, Is your point that the ZYX is also a light cartridge so that would also not be a good match for the Graham if the heavier Etsuro Gold is too light? Yet Steve likes the ZYX. So I’m confused also. Perhaps it’s the compliance or something else.

 

[ack]

Really glad to see Steve find his end game with a European cartridge as well.

 

[adyc]

If there is a downside (and it aint sibilance) it is the cantilever to this cartridge that is so long it looks like a sword and seems like an accident waiting to happen as the cartridge does not come with a stylus guard

Get a spare or two. And play all copies for 200 to 300 hours and send them back for checking. You are then set for life. Although repair is cheap, the master is very old...

 

[Steve Williams]

the master is very old

85 and still making cartridges every day

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes Mike. I did read that and I understand fully that he had the cartridges at different times. I also understand the Etsuro gold cartridge is heavier than the vdH cartridge. The two cartridges were never on the same arm. It’s possible both cartridges are too light for that Graham arm. I don’t really know. I’m pretty sure the guy who set up the cartridge did a good job and if Steve says the cartridge and arm were not compatible I take him at his word.

Now if he had tried the Etsuro gold cartridge on the SME arm he would have a better idea about the differences between the two cartridges and maybe like them equally well. I don’t know because that was a test that never occurred.

Edit: Mike, Is your point that the ZYX is also a light cartridge so that would also not be a good match for the Graham if the heavier Etsuro Gold is too light? Yet Steve likes the ZYX. So I’m confused also. Perhaps it’s the compliance or something else.

my point is there is a direct conflict between (1) Steve's earlier post saying that the Etsuro Gold......

was physically too light and incompatible with the Graham

and (2) his post today saying......

When I had the Etsuro I found that when compared to the ZYX it was more similar than different but the MSS is so different that it allows me the option of choice.

and (3) your comment......

I presume the Etsuro gold was very well set up

if #1 is true, how could #2 and #3 make any sense. either the Etsuro Gold worked on the Graham or it did not. if it did not work then how did he draw conclusions about it, and how could you presume it was well set up?

and overall i guess we simply don't really learn anything about the Etsuro Gold from Steve's experience other than apparently it's not compatible with the Graham. and if there is more i'd like to nail it down. and there does not need to be more. Steve is happy. and i'm happy he is happy. next case.

 

[ALF]

85 and still making cartridges every day

Super !!

We hope to be 85 and still listening...