DOEPKE Residual Current Circuit Breaker AUDIO GRADE

Blackmorec

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2019
660
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In the search for best possible 230Vac supply: After replacing RCCB and MCBs to audio grade have anyone looked at how much the main/isolation-switch degrades the quality?
In my own installation, which is according to UK code, the phase and neutral from my meter go directly to a sealed 100amp isolation switch before feeding into a Henley Block, where they are split to feed the household consumer unit and a dedicated hi-fi consumer unit. Being sealed, the isolation switch in the meter cabinet cannot be modified or bypassed

The main household consumer unit has a main isolation switch, an RCCB differential switch and several MSBs . My hi-fi consumer unit on the other hand only has an RCCB and two contract breakers, as the RCCB also functions as an isolation switch.
 

Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
800
553
405
London, UK
My main sealed fused (60a) switch is BEFORE my meter with a Henley block splitting AFTER the meter to individual Consumer units. A few months back I blew the fuse (it had to be at lest 16yrs old) requiring a call to the utility guys who couldn’t understand why it blew. After replacement I thought the noisefloor was lower.
Just my 1d’s worth.
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 6, 2013
701
294
373
Hi SwissTom,
Interesting information. I‘m still trying to figure that out. I can see how they are used to control both but I’m not so clear on whether that’s necessary, given you’re controlling the source of current. If you have additional information on how that additional level of protection functions I’d be most grateful. I currently use 2 single pole Gigawatt MCBs for 2 dedicated lines. Remember that feeds to both MCBs come from a Doepke RCCB so any phase imbalance is taken care of there….0.03A differential if I remember. 30 milliamperes
Using 2P MCB, you don’t need to use a neutral buss bar in a CU. It is more neat in terms of wiring. MCB can accept large gauge wires. It is very hard to bend the wire to neutral bar. It is makes life much easier.
 
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Blackmorec

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2019
660
1,019
198
Using 2P MCB, you don’t need to use a neutral buss bar in a CU. It is more neat in terms of wiring.
Hi adyc
I use 2 single pole MCBs and I don‘t use a neutral buss bar. I use a Doepke differential RCCB with live and neutral connected from the meter. The RCCB live output is connected via 2 x 16mm2 leads to the inputs of 2 16A Gigawatt MCBs. The Gigawatt outputs are connected to the hi-fi Radial live. Both Radial cable neutrals are then connected directly to the Doepke RCCB.
No neutral buss bar necessary.

If the above isn’t clear, the circuit goes, meter cabinet live—> Doepke RCCB live—> Gigawatt MCB —> hi-fi radial live —> hifi —> hi-fi radial neutral —> Doepke neutral —> meter cabinet neutral
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 6, 2013
701
294
373
In my own installation, which is according to UK code, the phase and neutral from my meter go directly to a sealed 100amp isolation switch before feeding into a Henley Block, where they are split to feed the household consumer unit and a dedicated hi-fi consumer unit. Being sealed, the isolation switch in the meter cabinet cannot be modified or bypassed

The main household consumer unit has a main isolation switch, an RCCB differential switch and several MSBs . My hi-fi consumer unit on the other hand only has an RCCB and two contract breakers, as the RCCB also functions as an isolation switch.
I am also going to have a dedicated Hi-Fi CU which will have 6 MCBs. I am wondering whether to have main MCB before RCCB and 6MCBs or straight to RCCB.
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 6, 2013
701
294
373
Hi adyc
I use 2 single pole MCBs and I don‘t use a neutral buss bar. I use a Doepke differential RCCB with live and neutral connected from the meter. The RCCB live output is connected via 2 x 16mm2 leads to the inputs of 2 16A Gigawatt MCBs. The Gigawatt outputs are connected to the hi-fi Radial live. Both Radial cable neutrals are then connected directly to the Doepke RCCB.
No neutral buss bar necessary.

If the above isn’t clear, the circuit goes, meter cabinet live—> Doepke RCCB live—> Gigawatt MCB —> hi-fi radial live —> hifi —> hi-fi radial neutral —> Doepke neutral —> meter cabinet neutral
Agree that one does not need a neutral buss bar if one has two MCBs. But a neutral buss bar is a must if one is going to have more than two MCBs in a CU unless one uses 2P MCB.
 

Blackmorec

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2019
660
1,019
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Agree that one does not need a neutral buss bar if one has two MCBs. But a neutral buss bar is a must if one is going to have more than two MCBs in a CU unless one uses 2P MCB.
Hi adyc
I’m afraid i cant see how using a 2P vs 1P avoids the use of a buss bar? You have a single neutral return from each hi-fi radial. If you take that return to a 2P MCB you still need to connect the 2P MCB to either a buss bar or directly to the RCCB neutral. The 2nd pole doesn’t change that. All the 2nd pole does is add another switch and another cable to each radial circuit rather than just taking the radial neutral straight to the RCCB

the other problem would be if you use the Doepke RCCB together with Gigawatt MCBs because the input on the Doepke is at the top of the switch, while its at the bottom on the Gigawatt, so a buss bar can‘t be used to connect the two without the use of additional cables
 
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adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 6, 2013
701
294
373
Hi adyc
I’m afraid i cant see how using a 2P vs 1P avoids the use of a buss bar? You have a single neutral return from each hi-fi radial. If you take that return to a 2P MCB you still need to connect the 2P MCB to either a buss bar or directly to the RCCB neutral. The 2nd pole doesn’t change that. All the 2nd pole does is add another switch and another cable to each radial circuit rather than just taking the radial neutral straight to the RCCB

the other problem would be if you use the Doepke RCCB together with Gigawatt MCBs because the input on the Doepke is at the top of the switch, while its at the bottom on the Gigawatt, so a buss bar can‘t be used to connect the two without the use of additional cables
Please see this link. This is for 2P MCB. I may misunderstand you if you think this is also a neutral buss bar.

 

Blackmorec

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2019
660
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Please see this link. This is for 2P MCB. I may misunderstand you if you think this is also a neutral buss bar.

That product in the link is a buss bar so now I really don't understand what you’re saying. To use a buss bar like the one above requires that all RCCB and MCB neutral terminals be on the same plane…..ie. That they are all aligned vertically and horizontally so the buss bar can connect all MCBs together with the RCCB ….but in the case of Doepke RCCB and Gigawatt, the neutral terminals are not aligned in any dimension, so a buss bar physically cant be connected because the terminals dont align….not even close. Even if you installed the MCBs upside down to get all neutrals on the same horizontal plane, the depth of each terminal is different so they still wouldn’t align in order to connect to a buss bar.
When I look at a 120V or 230V radial I still can’t see any reason to use a 2 pole MCB. A 2 pole from Gigawatt costs double, takes double the space and does exactly the same job. And if you install it as intended, which means connecting 2 radials, you lose the independence between the 2 lines such that a fault on one line will trigger the MCB for the other line, making trouble shooting a lot more difficult, requiring additional measurement instruments
 
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SwissTom

Active Member
Sep 30, 2021
74
159
35
Hi SwissTom,
Interesting information. I‘m still trying to figure that out. I can see how they are used to control both but I’m not so clear on whether that’s necessary, given you’re controlling the source of current. If you have additional information on how that additional level of protection functions I’d be most grateful. I currently use 2 single pole Gigawatt MCBs for 2 dedicated lines. Remember that feeds to both MCBs come from a Doepke RCCB so any phase imbalance is taken care of there….0.03A differential if I remember. 30 milliamperes

@Blackmorec

Here is my final setup :
  • 1x Doepke DFS4 63A / 0,03A Differential circuit breaker
  • 4x GigaWatt G-16A 2P
  • 4 strands of In-Wall Cable GigaWatt LC-Y EVO 3X4
IMG-5813.jpg
 

Stigmater

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2015
9
0
131
Hello,

I intalled the Doepke DFS 2 F Audio almost three weeks ago and I'm very satisfied but I'm afraid that in my case the break-in has been longer than the manufacturer claims.
Really, this has not caught me by surprise as I am very experienced in these issues. During this time I have listened more the second system that I have because suffering the break-in of a component prevents me from enjoy the music properly.
My main system was playing music for ten hours a day at least (all day long on weekends).

For a few days it seems that the sound has stabilized and I enjoy my system as I have never done.
The addition of this component to the dedicated line reaffirms, once again, the importance of the mains supply of our audio systems.
The sound has been compressed in terms of soundstage to a greater or lesser extent throughout the process, as well as dynamics and microinformation.

I've drawn a graph illustrating the process with performance (Y) and time (X) marking the days.

View attachment 61578
I’m at day 10 now and really looking forward for improving in dynamics because it’s gone for now.
 

Rocoa

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2018
113
75
115
Spain
Be patient as it is my experience and the many friend who instaled the Doepke.
The wait is worth it;)
 

Stigmater

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2015
9
0
131
Be patient as it is my experience and the many friend who instaled the Doepke.
The wait is worth it;)
Thanks for the support, I will update with developments.
if in two or three days I’ll gain the dynamics that I’m waiting to get I’ll start believe in miracles and confirm your graph is really correct , for now it’s really hard to be on day 10 :)
 

Stigmater

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2015
9
0
131
I’m in the middle of day 10 and it’s like there is no enough grip/power , all is mellow and nice but lack of dynamics is killing me.
 

Rocoa

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2018
113
75
115
Spain
I know that feeling very well and it is exasperating.
But patience has a prize, you know.
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
193
97
158
Wow, this the exact effect for me as well, i recognised its better tone colour and warmth, but it felt noticeable slower and duller when introduced in my dedicated mains.

Even as my unit burned, your post is spot on as mine, not one other poster ever described this effect except that bit was a fabulous improvement in their system.

I had played with different brands of RCCB as well as many breakers and used the Telos fused breaker units prior to swapping the Deopke, so i knew the effect was spot on, slower as the previous $30 unit was chosen for being the most dynamic of the 4 commercial RCCB units, it was an obscure unit manufactured by Mitsubshi, korean made unit i found for cheap just to grasp the differences in sonics between different brands.

For me, the rebalacing of sound came by changing out the Telos audio fuse breakers to Gigawatt breakers.

They in combination,
balance out the sonics well together.
 

Stigmater

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2015
9
0
131
Wow, this the exact effect for me as well, i recognised its better tone colour and warmth, but it felt noticeable slower and duller when introduced in my dedicated mains.

Even as my unit burned, your post is spot on as mine, not one other poster ever described this effect except that bit was a fabulous improvement in their system.

I had played with different brands of RCCB as well as many breakers and used the Telos fused breaker units prior to swapping the Deopke, so i knew the effect was spot on, slower as the previous $30 unit was chosen for being the most dynamic of the 4 commercial RCCB units, it was an obscure unit manufactured by Mitsubshi, korean made unit i found for cheap just to grasp the differences in sonics between different brands.

For me, the rebalacing of sound came by changing out the Telos audio fuse breakers to Gigawatt breakers.

They in combination,
balance out the sonics well together.
I have Doepke combined with Gigawatt breaker and just to make sure I understood your post, you saying that you had exactly same effect like me and after 10 days of suffering you felt tremendous change? Because I starting to loose my faith
 

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