Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?

[nc42acc]

Interesting that the thread has evolved into men arguing with men about budget systems, and no more mention of what was the biggest hot potato in that article, the supposed demeaning of women in the industry, and general lack of access for women to the hobby that doesn't include abuse.
I can't decide whether men not wanting to talk about that backs up the sentiment of that part of the article.

Women are welcome to join our conversation but I am doubtful.

 

[nc42acc]

Both are about supposed victims & victimhood Mark .

david

I am a victim of years of mediocre DACs. Who can I blame and get my reparations?

 

[Al M.]

Dear Al,
I remember going to big box stores or mid/low fi dealer with a few hundred bucks burning a hole in my pocket and promptly escorted to the budget room after with 20 pairs of speakers and 3-4 players to stick a CD in and most likely walk out with peace of mind carrying the box that your salesperson said he'll own if he was buying ! To be given that privilege you needed either a relationship with the store or announce that you were there to make a purchase. Today's medium is digital streaming and everyone has access to near unlimited music and video for little to no cost in the palm of their hands. There are numerous resources for people to learn from far more than what we had, people even have the ability to buy, try and return I don't recall that possibility specially with smaller dealers. There are still many big box stores like Best Buy, B&H and others where young and old, male, female and whatever can visit and try things out, but hey their sales staff are ignorant. Then go to a specialist and pay the costs. How many manufacturers and online retailers offer free home trials, you recently purchased products from a member here and a DAC online from a manufacturer with no strings attached, did you have the ability to say Schitt I don't like it give me my money back and walk away without thinking twice? There are no barriers or lack of competing outlets for anyone at any age to get a decent digital system today with relatively small outlay.

david

All good points, David.

DaveC's service, where he sends you demo cables at no cost and you only have to pay return shipping, is outstanding. With Schiit I would have had to pay a 5 % restocking fee for the DAC, which is reasonable (for their very low-priced products they ask for a 15 % restocking fee, which is still not unreasonable).

There were only two brands that I have ever purchased unheard. One was Reference 3A, based on recommendations to others on a forum (which specifically addressed my needs), and then reading a bunch of online reviews that consistently said the same thing about the main characteristics of the speakers (rare in the review world). Also, for my own budget it was a low-risk proposition -- I then upgraded to my current speakers from the same brand after already having been familiar with it. The other brand was JL Audio, based on the recommendation of my friend Ian (MadFloyd) whose ears I trusted and who pointed me also to the extensive and in his view necessary ability to fine-tune the subwoofer output, which indeed has proven essential in my system. But yes, since I met Ian indirectly over WBF, via Peter, you could say that in both cases the internet has provided opportunities that were not available in earlier times.

Only my amp/preamp combo, as well as CD transport, I bought the old fashioned way, after auditioning at home through Goodwin's.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I am a victim of years of mediocre DACs. Who can I blame and get my reparations?

My heart goes out to all those women stuck with mediocre audiophiles.
All they can hope for is 30 cents on the dollar on selling their "dearly beloved's" systems.

 

[nc42acc]

My heart goes out to all those women stuck with mediocre audiophiles.
All they can hope for is 30 cents on the dollar on selling their "dearly beloved's" systems.

Oh so true. I only wish I could get 30 cents on the dollar for my mediocre DACs and my past ex wife.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I am a victim of years of mediocre DACs. Who can I blame and get my reparations?

Now i can shake your hand .
Blame ........ the magazines , they owe me one .
Come on we ll file a law suit together get some of the money back .
Mediocre sound for high end money , sounds misleading to me

 

[nc42acc]

Now i can shake your hand .
Blame ........ the magazines , they owe me one .
Come on we ll file a law suit together get or money back .

Curiosity killed the cat and so it can the audiophile if you read sites that you shouldn’t. But I can say it was fun for awhile.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Imagine the audio magazines bring in a otolaryngologist in their defence , to prove there is nothing to blame on their side

 

[spiritofmusic]

I would say women were immune to the vagaries of hugely subjective and super spendy pursuits like audiofoolia.
They don't exist on the autistic spectrum like we do, not in the same numbers.
But I look at my GF who before we moved to the chapel here loved her gardening but had minimal sophisticated tastes.
Now with a bigger pallette to play with, she's way more opinionated on sources for seeds, is super choosy on color combinations, has a hankering for Japanese gardening tools, looks at her shed longingly.
She'd hate to admit it, but she's become fussy and completist...and yes, spendy...as many in this hobby.
Re abuse, she's had plenty directed at her...work, trade fairs, idiots in the street.
Put it this way, she absolutely gives as good as she gets.
Men soon get the message. I know I have Lol.

 

[Lagonda]

My heart goes out to all those women stuck with mediocre audiophiles.
All they can hope for is 30 cents on the dollar on selling their "dearly beloved's" systems.

Do you really think Ra will get 30 cents on the dollar for you Zu's Marc ? I doubt it, but they have the right size for a coffin when joined together !

 

[spiritofmusic]

A girl needs dreams and aspirations.

 

[cjfrbw]

My heart goes out to all those women stuck with mediocre audiophiles.
All they can hope for is 30 cents on the dollar on selling their "dearly beloved's" systems.

They will probably be delighted, since they were probably told they cost ten cents on the dollar and appreciated 300 percent.

WBF is no more woke than a college bolshevist who has never studied biology or history.

Why can't we just learn to love one another, even the un-monied, tin eared, unwashed and mislead audiophiles amongst us?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why should the industry make it easy for young people to get into the hobby?

I would have thought the obvious answer to this question is: "Because when those young people bit by the audio "bug" become old people they will spend much more money in this hobby."

 

[andromedaaudio]

I would have thought the obvious answer to this question is: "Because when those young people bit by the audio "bug" become old people they will spend much more money in this hobby."

IMO the dealers should have good listening rooms and a more open door policy not that open only by appointment stuff
Like a normal retail store with opening hours .
Young people walk in on a more easy basis and if the sound is good they get hooked ( for life may be ).
Just a thought

 

[Al M.]

IMO the dealers should have good listening rooms and a more open door policy not that open only by appointment stuff
Like a normal retail store with opening hours .
Young people walk in on a more easy basis and if the sound is good they get hooked ( for life may be ).
Just a thought

Yup, and they should advertise headphone gear, more than they do. For many young people speaker systems are alien, why would you try make it about those primarily. Once they have listened to the headphone offerings, you can always point out the speaker alternative. Maybe they'll get hooked.

If a retailer caters to younger people, they also don't need so much retail space for large rooms with large speaker systems. They can get away with smaller rooms and smaller speakers. A business model that would more easily sustain itself.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I would say women were immune to the vagaries of hugely subjective and super spendy pursuits like audiofoolia.
They don't exist on the autistic spectrum like we do, not in the same numbers.
But I look at my GF who before we moved to the chapel here loved her gardening but had minimal sophisticated tastes.
Now with a bigger pallette to play with, she's way more opinionated on sources for seeds, is super choosy on color combinations, has a hankering for Japanese gardening tools, looks at her shed longingly.
She'd hate to admit it, but she's become fussy and completist...and yes, spendy...as many in this hobby.
Re abuse, she's had plenty directed at her...work, trade fairs, idiots in the street.
Put it this way, she absolutely gives as good as she gets.
Men soon get the message. I know I have Lol.

The title of this thread had set it up for a fail right from the start. We have been pulling things apart without first looking at where we have things together. So what are some of the real strengths in our community… well for one we eventually learn to know when we have found a keeper. Ra sounds like even more of a destination than your Zus Marc. That’s magic.

So for Christmas you get her Japanese gardening tools and she gets you a power cable with bespoke handmade silver connectors… that’s a definite win win!

 

[PeterA]

I would have thought the obvious answer to this question is: "Because when those young people bit by the audio "bug" become old people they will spend much more money in this hobby."

If it’s so obvious to you Ron, why is the industry not doing that? Or is it? Did it do it before?Young people and people with lower budgets do have all sorts of ways to get involved in the hobby. I was involved in college and then got back into it when I was about 32. It’s a lot easier to buy used gear now than it was then. And it’s a lot easier to read and get advice on forums now than it was then.

Most of it depends on desire to learn and the effort it takes to create good sound from a modest system.

Please point to the evidence that a lot of people who are young with low budgets are interested in the hobby but face barriers to entry.

What exactly is the problem that you are trying to solve? Please define it. I just don’t understand with the issue is.

 

[tima]

Why are you so angry?

Actually I'm quite content, but somebody has to speak out against made up allegations that are devisive and false. Did you expect no one would?

 

[nc42acc]

Actually I'm quite content, but somebody has to speak out against made up allegations that are devisive and false. Did you expect no one would?

I think you are alleging that I was making allegations. I wasn't aware of your physic powers to make such allegations.

 

[Ron Resnick]

If it’s so obvious to you Ron, why is the industry not doing that? Or is it? Did it do it before?Young people and people with lower budgets do have all sorts of ways to get involved in the hobby. I was involved in college and then got back into it when I was about 32. It’s a lot easier to buy used gear now than it was then. And it’s a lot easier to read and get advice on forums now than it was then.

Most of it depends on desire to learn and the effort it takes to create good sound from a modest system.

Please point to the evidence that a lot of people who are young with low budgets are interested in the hobby but face barriers to entry.

What exactly is the problem that you were trying to solve? Please define it.

Please point to the evidence that a lot of people who are young with low budgets are interested in the hobby but face barriers to entry.

I think "barriers to entry" is an overwrought characterization. In general high-end audio dealers in Manhattan in the 1980s and 1990s were well-known for snobiness and dismissiveness of young people with low budgets.


What exactly is the problem that you were trying to solve? Please define it.

I am not trying to solve any problem. I was merely answering your question.