DS Audio Ionizer

[thekong]

It’s not about the placement or the green light. DS ION-001 has a negative effect on sound. That is a fact and it’s clear as a day as well as absurdity of constant ion bombardment on cartridge while playing.

It’s strange to see people who are tedious on every detail but easily accept placing a device near turntable which is constantly bombarding the cartridge with ions. It’s probably because of DS ION-001 being presented in a fancy case by a fashionable brand and promoted by critics. IMHO if you’re not a dealer you will hear improvement when you turn it off.

Interesting discussion, I am interested to learn more about what in theory is the negative effect of constant ion bombardment on cartridge during play ? Other than the elimination, or lowering the level, of static, what are the other effect of ions on cartridge performance? Thanks

 

[Ron Resnick]

It’s not about the placement or the green light. DS ION-001 has a negative effect on sound.

What negative sonic effects do you hear?

Is your suggestion to let the device zap the record for a rotation or two, and then to turn it off?

 

[mtemur]

What TT and pre did you demo one with?

Techdas airforce one, DaVinci Gabriel, Techdas airforce III premium, CH Precision and Kondo electronics. These are the ones I remember.

 

[mtemur]

What negative sonic effects do you hear?

Smearing, especially high frequencies. Check @Zeotrope ’s excellent report.

Is your suggestion to let the device zap the record for a rotation or two, and then to turn it off?

Yes, it’s highly effective and very useful when kept on during brushing and turned off afterwards.

 

[mtemur]

Interesting discussion, I am interested to learn more about what in theory is the negative effect of constant ion bombardment on cartridge during play ? Other than the elimination, or lowering the level, of static, what are the other effect of ions on cartridge performance? Thanks

I’m sure there is a theory but there is no need. DS ION-001 is so powerful that it’s eliminating thousands volts of static electricity instantly. Think about how much it can affect tiny coils of MC cartridge producing less than a mili volt. I’m sure manufacturer will say how much technology behind their product, how they work to eliminate interference with cartridge blah blah. BS.

BTW if anybody thinks that keeping ION-001 on while playing is good for eliminating static build up caused by stylus friction in the groove is totally wrong. There is a research about static and the conclusion is stylus friction is negligible for static build up.

 

[djsina2]

I’m sure there is a theory but there is no need. DS ION-001 is so powerful that it’s eliminating thousands volts of static electricity instantly. Think about how much it can affect tiny coils of MC cartridge producing less than a mili volt. I’m sure manufacturer will say how much technology behind their product, how they work to eliminate interference with cartridge blah blah. BS.

BTW if anybody thinks that keeping ION-001 on while playing is good for eliminating static build up caused by stylus friction in the groove is totally wrong. There is a research about static and the conclusion is stylus friction is negligible for static build up.

Obviously if your theory was true the less than a milivolt of the cartridge would be completely eliminated just as the static voltage is and there would be no sound.

 

[mtemur]

Obviously if your theory was true the less than a milivolt of the cartridge would be completely eliminated just as the static voltage is and there would be no sound.

Nothing can totally be eliminated that way because cartridge is in a closed circuit but static electricity on vinyl is open circuit. If you’re ok with that, I mean leaving cartridge in ion bombardment then it’s fine for me too.

 

[djsina2]

Nothing can totally eliminated that way because cartridge is in a closed circuit but static electricity on vinyl is open circuit. If you’re ok with that, I mean leaving cartridge in ion bombardment then it’s fine for me too.

Ok but surely there would be some sort of major disruption to the sound if it was having any impact at all. The other guy said he heard a 1% difference. Not sure that’s even humanly possible. Thank you for approving my use of the ions.

 

[Doc76]

Fremer seems to like the 001

Near bottom of page -

https://www.stereophile.com/content/analog-corner-299-haniwa-hcvc01-cad-ground-control-ds-audio-vinyl-ionizer-001-page-2

 

[mtemur]

Ok but surely there would be some sort of major disruption to the sound if it was having any impact at all. The other guy said he heard a 1% difference. Not sure that’s even humanly possible. Thank you for approving my use of the ions.

Sometimes or at some levels %1 difference is huge. How much of a difference do you think exist between tubes?

 

[djsina2]

Sometimes or at some levels %1 difference is huge. How much of a difference do you think between tubes?

I would have no idea how to quantify that.

 

[sbo6]

I’m sure there is a theory but there is no need. DS ION-001 is so powerful that it’s eliminating thousands volts of static electricity instantly. Think about how much it can affect tiny coils of MC cartridge producing less than a mili volt. I’m sure manufacturer will say how much technology behind their product, how they work to eliminate interference with cartridge blah blah. BS.

BTW if anybody thinks that keeping ION-001 on while playing is good for eliminating static build up caused by stylus friction in the groove is totally wrong. There is a research about static and the conclusion is stylus friction is negligible for static build up.

Can you please help me understand how the removal of static electricity would be more detrimental than the presence and buildup of static electricity?

Also, can you please provide evidence that static buildup caused by stylus friction is negligible?

 

[mtemur]

Can you please help me understand how the removal of static electricity would be more detrimental than the presence and buildup of static electricity?

Please show me where I said “don’t remove static electricity”

Also, can you please provide evidence that static buildup caused by stylus friction is negligible?

I can. If you don’t believe then show me that stylus friction is the cause of static.

 

[Vinylfan]

Please show me where I said “don’t remove static electricity”



I can. If you don’t believe then show me that stylus friction is the cause of static.

Static electricity is the result of an imbalance in the electric charge within an object or between objects. There are several ways static electricity can be generated within a room, and these processes are often influenced by factors such as materials, humidity, and friction. Here are some common methods of static electricity generation:

1. Friction:
   • Rubbing materials: When two different materials come into contact and are then separated, electrons can be transferred from one material to another. This process is known as triboelectric charging. For example, rubbing a balloon against your hair can generate static electricity.
2. Conduction:
   • Direct contact: If a charged object comes into direct contact with a neutral object, some of the charge can be transferred, resulting in both objects having a net charge. This is common in scenarios where charged objects touch conductive materials.
3. Induction:
   • Influencing charges without direct contact: In induction, a charged object can induce a charge in a neutral object without direct contact. For example, bringing a charged rod near a neutral conductor can cause electrons to redistribute within the conductor, leading to a temporary charge separation.
4. Electrostatic Induction:
   • Separation of charges in insulators: When an insulating material is exposed to an external electric field, the electrons within the atoms of the material may be rearranged, creating areas of positive and negative charge. This can happen in various insulating materials, like plastics and rubber.
5. Tribocharging:
   • Contact and separation of similar materials: When two similar materials are brought into contact and then separated, they may exchange electrons, leading to the accumulation of static charge. This is common in everyday situations, such as when walking on certain types of flooring.
6. Humidity Effects:
   • Moisture content in the air: Humidity can affect static electricity generation. Dry air allows for better charge accumulation, while humid conditions can dissipate static charges more quickly. This is why static electricity is often more noticeable in dry, winter months.
7. Air Ionization:
   • Creation of charged particles: Air movement, such as walking on a carpet or using certain types of machinery, can lead to the creation of charged particles (ions) in the air. These ions can contribute to static electricity buildup on nearby objects.

Ionizers typically release ions into the air, and while ions exist in the atmosphere, the concentration and impact of these ions on a turntable cartridge are likely to be negligible. Cartridges primarily interact with vibrations from the record grooves and are designed to convert these mechanical vibrations into electrical signals.

It's possible that the perceived negative effects mentioned could be attributed to other factors such as electromagnetic interference or vibrations from the ionizer itself. It's also worth noting that individual perceptions of sound quality can be subjective and influenced by various factors, including psychological biases. As with everything audio if it works for you use it if it doesn’t work for you don’t use it.

 

[mtemur]

Also, can you please provide evidence that static buildup caused by stylus friction is negligible?

I wrote about it before:

According to an article based on research by James H. Kogen in 1978:
"The observation that placing a charged record on a grounded turntable reduces the effect of the charge because the electrostatic field is concentrated between the turntable and the underside of the record, which reduces the original field. When the record is removed from the turn-table, the original voltage reappears."

He mentions that records can be charged up to 30.000 negative volts and it can decrease to 3000 negative volts when placed on a grounded platter. He also explains that playing a record doesn't cause a significant charge to build up.
"A few minutes of experimentation with such an instrument will show how tenacious and easily produced the charges are. Even wiping the record with damp cloth may produce charges rather than neutralizing them. Incidentally, measurements with these instruments have shown that electrification from the direct friction between the diamond and vinyl is, oddly enough, negligible."

"Any form of friction, motion, or contact is likely to produce charges, and vinyl is one of the most easily charged materials available. Hence, such common actions as removing a record from its jacket or wiping it with a cloth or brush, is certain to produce a charge that will be hard to remove."

That's why brushing should be done before anti-static treatment. The effect of anti-static treatment does not go away even after you play the whole side but can easily be reverted by brushing, rubbing etc.

You can read whole article here:
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/70s/Audio-1978-05.pdf

 

[Vinylfan]

Static electricity is the result of an imbalance in the electric charge within an object or between objects. There are several ways static electricity can be generated within a room, and these processes are often influenced by factors such as materials, humidity, and friction. Here are some common methods of static electricity generation:

1. Friction:
   • Rubbing materials: When two different materials come into contact and are then separated, electrons can be transferred from one material to another. This process is known as triboelectric charging. For example, rubbing a balloon against your hair can generate static electricity.
2. Conduction:
   • Direct contact: If a charged object comes into direct contact with a neutral object, some of the charge can be transferred, resulting in both objects having a net charge. This is common in scenarios where charged objects touch conductive materials.
3. Induction:
   • Influencing charges without direct contact: In induction, a charged object can induce a charge in a neutral object without direct contact. For example, bringing a charged rod near a neutral conductor can cause electrons to redistribute within the conductor, leading to a temporary charge separation.
4. Electrostatic Induction:
   • Separation of charges in insulators: When an insulating material is exposed to an external electric field, the electrons within the atoms of the material may be rearranged, creating areas of positive and negative charge. This can happen in various insulating materials, like plastics and rubber.
5. Tribocharging:
   • Contact and separation of similar materials: When two similar materials are brought into contact and then separated, they may exchange electrons, leading to the accumulation of static charge. This is common in everyday situations, such as when walking on certain types of flooring.
6. Humidity Effects:
   • Moisture content in the air: Humidity can affect static electricity generation. Dry air allows for better charge accumulation, while humid conditions can dissipate static charges more quickly. This is why static electricity is often more noticeable in dry, winter months.
7. Air Ionization:
   • Creation of charged particles: Air movement, such as walking on a carpet or using certain types of machinery, can lead to the creation of charged particles (ions) in the air. These ions can contribute to static electricity buildup on nearby objects.

Ionizers typically release ions into the air, and while ions exist in the atmosphere, the concentration and impact of these ions on a turntable cartridge are likely to be negligible. Cartridges primarily interact with vibrations from the record grooves and are designed to convert these mechanical vibrations into electrical signals.

It's possible that the perceived negative effects mentioned could be attributed to other factors such as electromagnetic interference or vibrations from the ionizer itself. It's also worth noting that individual perceptions of sound quality can be subjective and influenced by various factors, including psychological biases. As with everything audio if it works for you use it if it doesn’t work for you don’t use it.

When I use my Myajima Infinity mono cartridge without the DS audio ION, a tremendous amount of static is created. It is evident when I remove the record, I get much less static when using my other arm and a stereo cartridge. Unscientifically this would appear to show static being created by the stylist contact on the vinyl as all other things are equal in the room interestingly, I wonder whether the profile of the stylist has anything to do potentially with the creation of static ? Engaging the DS audio totally removes the static buildup with the mono cartridge, so it is definitely working to remove static. As for its perceived effect on sound, my ears don’t detect anything, but that’s not to say that others wouldn’t. For me, I leave it on all the time while playing

 

[mtemur]

When I use my Myajima Infinity mono cartridge without the DS audio ION, a tremendous amount of static is created. It is evident when I remove the record, I get much less static when using my other arm and a stereo cartridge. Unscientifically this would appear to show static being created by the stylist contact on the vinyl as all other things are equal in the room interestingly, I wonder whether the profile of the stylist has anything to do potentially with the creation of static ? Engaging the DS audio totally removes the static buildup with the mono cartridge, so it is definitely working to remove static. As for its perceived effect on sound, my ears don’t detect anything, but that’s not to say that others wouldn’t. For me, I leave it on all the time while playing

Nobody is saying DS ION-001 is useless. On the contrary it is very useful when it's kept off while playing. Please read my prior posts and please read the article I shared. You'll find answers.

 

[sbo6]

I don't think Vinylfan is arguing at any level and is simply posting his experiences. In addition, he never stated the "DS ION-001 is useless." We're all learning and have the same goal - better vinyl playback.

 

[mtemur]

Bombarding cartridge with ions was not ok from my point of view as well as bombarding air in the room. I also shared my listening impressions and the logic behind my assertion but now I give up cause I don't see the point in explaining any further.

 

[sbo6]

If room humidity is correct, there is minimal to no need for a device like the ION. Ionizing just before playback is therefore more than adequate.. Static will not build up during playback if the room humidity is correct.

What if your room has carpet?