DS Audio Ionizer

[sbo6]

I wrote about it before:

According to an article based on research by James H. Kogen in 1978:
"The observation that placing a charged record on a grounded turntable reduces the effect of the charge because the electrostatic field is concentrated between the turntable and the underside of the record, which reduces the original field. When the record is removed from the turn-table, the original voltage reappears."

He mentions that records can be charged up to 30.000 negative volts and it can decrease to 3000 negative volts when placed on a grounded platter. He also explains that playing a record doesn't cause a significant charge to build up.
"A few minutes of experimentation with such an instrument will show how tenacious and easily produced the charges are. Even wiping the record with damp cloth may produce charges rather than neutralizing them. Incidentally, measurements with these instruments have shown that electrification from the direct friction between the diamond and vinyl is, oddly enough, negligible."

"Any form of friction, motion, or contact is likely to produce charges, and vinyl is one of the most easily charged materials available. Hence, such common actions as removing a record from its jacket or wiping it with a cloth or brush, is certain to produce a charge that will be hard to remove."

That's why brushing should be done before anti-static treatment. The effect of anti-static treatment does not go away even after you play the whole side but can easily be reverted by brushing, rubbing etc.

You can read whole article here:
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/70s/Audio-1978-05.pdf

Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff albeit most is common knowledge. My key takeaways:

• P40 ” These (ES) effects show up in many forms, principally (a) crackling, pop[1]ping, or frying noises during record playback; (b) brief popping sounds dur[1]ing arm setdown; (c) excess stylus force due to electrostatic attraction of the cartridge to the record being played;"
• P40 “Incidentally, measurements with these instruments have shown that electrification from the direct friction between the diamond and vinyl is, oddly enough, negligible.”

-- My comments / question(s) - With stylus shape and cantilever materials changing since the 1970s is this still accurate?

• P44: “However, 4200 V can add an extra %, gram to the stylus force! This additional force would in- crease wear and at least change the in -tended tracking conditions significantly.”

-- IMO this reason alone would warrant the cost of an Ion generator.

• P44: Possibly of most importance is the fact that a natural charge will be non- uniform and cause cyclic wow or frequency modulation with record rotation. The result can be nonrepeatable and probably difficult to identify but would have a clearly discernable effect on sound quality.”

-- Might this be the / a reason as to why some are hearing sonic benefits?

• P44: “Experiments with household dust also show that a record voltage of only 1000 or 2000 V is enough to make fine particles adhere to the record and re- sist brushing or blowing, especially out of the grooves, where ordinary bristles cannot reach.”

-- Another reason why an Ion generator is worth the $ IMO.

• P44 conclusion “From this, we conclude that electrostatic charges can create some serious problems in tracking, distortion, noise, and dust accumulation. This most certainly is a phenomenon which at our present level of sophistication in high fidelity record reproduction cannot be ignored.”

-- Seems like the summary aligns with a need to reduce ES and why an Ion generator makes sense. I have since purchased the Westek 94000, I'll find out soon enough

 

[Zeotrope]

What if your room has carpet?

Even with carpet, maintaining the right humidity in the room will not produce static.

 

[Zeotrope]

When I use my Myajima Infinity mono cartridge without the DS audio ION, a tremendous amount of static is created. It is evident when I remove the record, I get much less static when using my other arm and a stereo cartridge. Unscientifically this would appear to show static being created by the stylist contact on the vinyl as all other things are equal in the room interestingly, I wonder whether the profile of the stylist has anything to do potentially with the creation of static ? Engaging the DS audio totally removes the static buildup with the mono cartridge, so it is definitely working to remove static. As for its perceived effect on sound, my ears don’t detect anything, but that’s not to say that others wouldn’t. For me, I leave it on all the time while playing

As mentioned, check your room humidity. I will bet it’s far from what it should be.

 

[djsina2]

I have a carpeted room in a cold dry climate. With the whole house humidifier I maintain 40-45% in the winter but still have static. The equipment matters too, I’ve had big differences in static between turntables and record cleaning machines.

 

[Zeotrope]

Ok but surely there would be some sort of major disruption to the sound if it was having any impact at all. The other guy said he heard a 1% difference. Not sure that’s even humanly possible. Thank you for approving my use of the ions.

Why don’t you try it for yourself, rather than discounting others’ results?

 

[djsina2]

Why don’t you try it for yourself, rather than discounting others’ results?

I have. I prefer bombarding my cartridge with ions.

 

[Zeotrope]

I have a carpeted room in a cold dry climate. With the whole house humidifier I maintain 40-45% in the winter but still have static. The equipment matters too, I’ve had big differences in static between turntables and record cleaning machines.

If you had 40% relative humidity in winter, you’d have water dripping from your windows and causing mold. That’s probably not the case, so you didn’t maintain 40-45% humidity in winter
Look at the chart I posted above. Depending on outside temp, you’re at 20-30% humidity indoors.

 

[djsina2]

If you had 40% relative humidity in winter, you’d have water dripping from your windows and causing mold. That’s probably not the case, so you didn’t maintain 40-45% humidity in winter
Look at the chart I posted above. Depending on outside temp, you’re at 20-30% humidity indoors.

I go by what the humidistat says. No water dripping anywhere, no mold.

 

[Vinylfan]

As mentioned, check your room humidity. I will bet it’s far from what it should be.

Certainly agree the humidity is important. I keep mine at approx 40%. It is a challenge with forced air heating so I do run a humidifier on the furnace. I have also run a humidifier in the media room in the past and that works well, use distilled water if your local water is hard. but for now to not have that inconvenience I switched to the DS ION. The confusing part for me is that the mono cartridge seems to create a lot of static even in the middle of summer. When humidity in these parts could be as high as 60%. I’m wondering if it’s related to grounding or the fact that the Myajima cartridge is heavy and the tracking force is heavier? Anyhow, quite happy with the DS. In my case it is solved the issue.

 

[Zeotrope]

Certainly agree the humidity is important. I keep mine at approx 40%. It is a challenge with forced air heating so I do run a humidifier on the furnace. I have also run a humidifier in the media room in the past and that works well, use distilled water if your local water is hard. but for now to not have that inconvenience I switched to the DS ION. The confusing part for me is that the mono cartridge seems to create a lot of static even in the middle of summer. When humidity in these parts could be as high as 60%. I’m wondering if it’s related to grounding or the fact that the Myajima cartridge is heavy and the tracking force is heavier? Anyhow, quite happy with the DS. In my case it is solved the issue.View attachment 122514

Cool web interface! What device is that?

 

[Vinylfan]

Cool web interface! What device is that?

The company is called Airthings. I originally bought it to monitor the radon levels because I live in an area where that’s a potential problem. Luckily we have never had the problem.

Airthings | About Us

We believe radon detectors and IAQ monitors should be in everyone's home and business. See what we are doing to raise awareness, find out about our expert team of Norwegian CERN scientists, technology professionals who founded the company are leading the charge.

www.airthings.com

 

[sbo6]

Even with carpet, maintaining the right humidity in the room will not produce static.

My home humidity is controlled and is commonly 40% - 55%, my audio room has carpet and there is static at the turntable and records. Others above have reported the same, so your assumption is false.

Net - Static buildup is inversely related to humidity but is not ever completely omitted unless you're in a rainforest.

 

[Zeotrope]

My home humidity is controlled and is commonly 40% - 55%, my audio room has carpet and there is static at the turntable and records. Others above have reported the same, so your assumption is false.

Net - Static buildup is inversely related to humidity but is not ever completely omitted unless you're in a rainforest.

You must have a ground or other issue then, or your TT is generating an electrical imbalance. I have zero static with my Nagra Reference and my Brinkmann Bardo.

 

[Lagonda]

I used to get zapped when i touched the tonearm especially in wintertime, had to partly tape down the leather mat to the lead platter because it stuck to the LP when i lifted it ! These days, nothing ! No more static buildup, and no apparent change in operation or set-up.

 

[Doc76]

You must have a ground or other issue then, or your TT is generating an electrical imbalance. I have zero static with my Nagra Reference and my Brinkmann Bardo.

Zoetrope speaking of grounds, did you ground your DS Audio ION? If so how?

 

[sbo6]

You must have a ground or other issue then, or your TT is generating an electrical imbalance. I have zero static with my Nagra Reference and my Brinkmann Bardo.

Yes, me and everyone who reported the exact same results as me all have ground issues.... And the statistical probability of that is?

Vinyl carries static charges, friction causes static, period.

 

[Zeotrope]

Zoetrope speaking of grounds, did you ground your DS Audio ION? If so how?

Yes, grounded to the Shunyata Altaira Signal Hub and then to the Denali 6000 v2. TT chassis and tonearm also grounded to the same.

 

[Doc76]

Yes, grounded to the Shunyata Altaira Signal Hub and then to the Denali 6000 v2. TT chassis and tonearm also grounded to the same.

Though a grounding cable came with the Ion, mine is not grounded. I don’t hear what you are hearing, so it may be worth a try to unground it.

 

[Zeotrope]

Though a grounding cable came with the Ion, mine is not grounded. I don’t hear what you are hearing, so it may be worth a try to unground it.

The ION is supposed to be grounded. This could be why you are not hearing a difference. Grounding will reduce noise. Because mine is grounded, I likely have a lower noise floor, which makes it easier to hear the noise coming from the ionizer.
I also have a Very revealing setup (Nagra Reference TT, 4ohm cart, HD Phono), so this could be why it’s not audible in other setups.

 

[Doc76]

The ION is supposed to be grounded. This could be why you are not hearing a difference. Grounding will reduce noise. Because mine is grounded, I likely have a lower noise floor, which makes it easier to hear the noise coming from the ionizer.
I also have a Very revealing setup (Nagra Reference TT, 4ohm cart, HD Phono), so this could be why it’s not audible in other setups.

Not really. According to the DS Audio the ION may be used with or without a ground. See the photo in the link above.

I’ve played some 17 LPs with and without the DS Audio. I had two audiophile friends come over last night. They hear absolutely no distortion in my system using the DS Audio. And all of us heard an improvement … We also tried testing the Ion against the Furutech Destat III and while the Destat worked well for app one half + of a LP playback, thereafter the continuous ionization by the DS Audio played better …

As I said above perhaps having yours connected to a ground actually may be why you may be hearing a 1% difference.… And if you must ground then perhaps using the grounding cable that came with your ION may work better than the Shunyata substitution. It couldn’t hurt to try, as there has to be a reason why only a few people express a problem while 1000s of others don’t.