If Pyramix ever finishes their Emotion server/player software and makes it into a product that offers Stereo and Multichannel DSD playback - and maybe even recording - for the Pro-Sumer and Audiophile markets, they could really have something! After hearing the Horus in action at Bruce's room at RMAF a few months back, I continue to watch these rumored developments with interest.
DSD Battle Royale!
- Thread starter Bruce B
- Start date
If Pyramix ever finishes their Emotion server/player software and makes it into a product that offers Stereo and Multichannel DSD playback - and maybe even recording - for the Pro-Sumer and Audiophile markets, they could really have something! After hearing the Horus in action at Bruce's room at RMAF a few months back, I continue to watch these rumored developments with interest.
Thanks. Working now here as well. Picked up the file - pretty close at all three resolutions. The DSD256 might be a hair better, very close.
Korg M2000 Mods
Can you tell us who did the mods to your Korg? (Sorry if this was answered already downthread, this is long one string.)
Can you tell us who did the mods to your Korg? (Sorry if this was answered already downthread, this is long one string.)
Adding to Bruce's library of DSD test and demo files, nativedsd.com has constructed a new label named Just Listen to house the site's labels sample files. These include tracks recorded natively at 256fs, 128fs, and 64fs DSD, with some also adding up and down converted DSD bit rate, and a few DXD.
The files are offered free of charge, just have to site register. They're intended to provide examples of advanced DSD bit rate new acoustic recordings, plus normal studio mastering practice file conversions for post processing, so listeners here may judge the affects with their own systems.
The files are offered free of charge, just have to site register. They're intended to provide examples of advanced DSD bit rate new acoustic recordings, plus normal studio mastering practice file conversions for post processing, so listeners here may judge the affects with their own systems.
Hi,
It sounds like you are describing DSD-wide as DPCM, as opposed to LPCM? Either way, it is still PCM, but DPCM can encode equivalent information at less bits with higher sample rates. This is related to Delta modulation, but I don't think it technically qualifies as true multi-bit delta sigma.
An area of high concern for me with DSD-wide is the impulse response. I have the white paper, and have read it multiple times. 1 bit to multi-bit conversion is done with a FIR filter, not unlike what you will find in a typical Delta Sigma DAC. The difference is no sample rate decimation happens, only the digital filter that sums to multi-bit and low pass filters the signal.
My concern is that this filtering leaves its mark. Even though it is not decimated, it has an impulse response of around 96khz, which is very much PCM like. And there is 'gentle' frequency filtering applied in the conversion. I do not know the cutoff. I do have the tap/coefficient information. Some one much more knowledgeable than I could figure it out.
So in the end, you get filtering/ringing anyway, even if there is no actual decimation applied. It is possible, though, that this CAN be minimized with gentler filters that have better impulse response. But in the case of DSD-wide, that impulse response leaves me worried...
Thanks as always, though, Tom for your great work. All the above is purely academic. The bottom line is the results you guys get from your efforts to record in pure 1 bit speak for themselves. Great stuff!!
Andrew
It sounds like you are describing DSD-wide as DPCM, as opposed to LPCM? Either way, it is still PCM, but DPCM can encode equivalent information at less bits with higher sample rates. This is related to Delta modulation, but I don't think it technically qualifies as true multi-bit delta sigma.
An area of high concern for me with DSD-wide is the impulse response. I have the white paper, and have read it multiple times. 1 bit to multi-bit conversion is done with a FIR filter, not unlike what you will find in a typical Delta Sigma DAC. The difference is no sample rate decimation happens, only the digital filter that sums to multi-bit and low pass filters the signal.
My concern is that this filtering leaves its mark. Even though it is not decimated, it has an impulse response of around 96khz, which is very much PCM like. And there is 'gentle' frequency filtering applied in the conversion. I do not know the cutoff. I do have the tap/coefficient information. Some one much more knowledgeable than I could figure it out.
So in the end, you get filtering/ringing anyway, even if there is no actual decimation applied. It is possible, though, that this CAN be minimized with gentler filters that have better impulse response. But in the case of DSD-wide, that impulse response leaves me worried...
Thanks as always, though, Tom for your great work. All the above is purely academic. The bottom line is the results you guys get from your efforts to record in pure 1 bit speak for themselves. Great stuff!!
Andrew
For those of you that haven't done it and still want to listen to the files, please PM me your email address and I can send a link.
My new website SA doesn't like public ftp access! Go figure?? LOL
My new website SA doesn't like public ftp access! Go figure?? LOL
Bruce
Since the original 9/2013 shoot out of A to D processors, have you gotten anything new and is Grimm still at the top of the list? This was a great thread that you started.
Since the original 9/2013 shoot out of A to D processors, have you gotten anything new and is Grimm still at the top of the list? This was a great thread that you started.
I sold the Grimm after many head to head test with the Horus. The Horus is my primary A/D converter now and so far, nothing has gotten close. I still have my EMM Labs ADC8 IV for color and also the Tascam/Korg for portability.
I'm dying to try the new Playback Designs A/D converter. Nothing really new has come on the market lately.
The Horus is just the same as the Hapi with just more slots. The base Horus is $5500 with each Premium I/O about $2700. So 8channel I/O with mic pre's will cost just north of $10k. The Horus can be outfitted with 32-channels of I/O.
I think the Hapi with 8-channel I/O in Premium mode is about $6.5k
I'm enroute in Amsterdam returning from Budapest where Channel Classics recorded the Budapest Festival Orchestra playing Mahler Symphony 3, recorded both with the Grimm AD1 at 64fs and the Horus at 256fs. The microphones and their placement used for each setup were very different, for the end product on the Grimm is a milti mic'ed commercial SACD, and the five mic multichannel is a purist surround recording.
The mics used for the Grimm were both DPA 4006's and Scheops both omni and cardioid, and the Horus DPA 4041's with 4006's for the sorrounds. The sonic differences were primarily mic selection and placement, but both very distinctive. Stunning is more like it.
We hope to have samples of both on NativeDSD soon, so you all can judge.
Tom
The mics used for the Grimm were both DPA 4006's and Scheops both omni and cardioid, and the Horus DPA 4041's with 4006's for the sorrounds. The sonic differences were primarily mic selection and placement, but both very distinctive. Stunning is more like it.
We hope to have samples of both on NativeDSD soon, so you all can judge.
Tom
New technology in DSD256 Analog to Digital Converters (not ARDA chip):
RME ADI 2 PRO: DSD256 + 768 kHz PCM AD/DA, plus Sound It! Software for recording (AKM new chip)->https://twitter.com/SounReco/status/798740214235549696
Mytek Brooklyn ADC DSD256 in Stock (ESS new chip?)-> http://mytekdigital.com/storeus/index.php/professional/converters/brkl-adc-b.html
Playback Designs Pinot ADC (FPGA) DSD256 ->http://positive-feedback.com/audio-...-music-server-brief-notes-pinot-quad-dsd-adc/
Time for a new Battle is coming!
RME ADI 2 PRO: DSD256 + 768 kHz PCM AD/DA, plus Sound It! Software for recording (AKM new chip)->https://twitter.com/SounReco/status/798740214235549696
Mytek Brooklyn ADC DSD256 in Stock (ESS new chip?)-> http://mytekdigital.com/storeus/index.php/professional/converters/brkl-adc-b.html
Playback Designs Pinot ADC (FPGA) DSD256 ->http://positive-feedback.com/audio-...-music-server-brief-notes-pinot-quad-dsd-adc/
Time for a new Battle is coming!
I will be receiving the PD Pinot in just a couple of weeks. So far, only the Horus has been in the stable the longest, but time will tell!!!!!
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