Emm labs DA2 v2 upgrade

[jeromelang]

Would be very interested in the 2i vs MPD-8, as similar platform but different approaches to power supply, isolation, and digital filters. Curious if their strengths start to converge at a certain point.

from what i see

additional analog input - MPD-8i wins
ease of volume adjustments - DV2i wins

i can hear some sonic differences whenever the volume is changed on the MPS-8 (using the supplied remote)
if i had to adjust the volume louder and softer, afterwards i would always need to shut down the player.
after powering it up again, i would first bring the volume to the desired level.
then load in the disc and play.

the DV2i has a volume knob, the MPD-8i doesn't have it (needs to use the remote for this purpose)
but then i doubt anyone are as sensitive to the ill effects of remote control infrared codes as me.
the MPS-8 is already very, very, very, immuned to the ill effects of infrared code affecting its internal operation.
I find better in that regards compared against the meitner TX2/DA2v2
the degree of sonic differences using/not using remote is much more audible on the meitner.
so i say having the volume knob on the front panel is a very good thing.
but, again, i have no experience with DV2/DV2i, and i cannot be sure i won't find any sonic differences whenever their volume knobs were being touched. meitner has a nasty habbit of throwing unexpected surprises (like polarity invert function still being active on the TX2, and keeps its status even after powering off).

oh, and btw, PB and Emmy are voiced different.

Emmy is kinda like boutique label analogue production vinyl record remasterings. appeals more to audiophiles.
PB is more like the original label's first pressings.

 

[Yuen A.]

Hi guys, I'm happy to inform you that a professional review of the EMM Labs DA2I by Fred Crowder has just been posted on Dagogo. It's evidently a very honest and insightful review! He conclude (in part):

"The first thing that you notice with the DA2i, particularly with SACD’s, is the huge sound space that it creates, coupled with the increased air around instruments and sharper focus. A close second is the lowering of perceived noise and a concomitant increase in resolution, particularly at the soft end of the spectrum. Bass is not exactly bigger, but it is cleaner, and in particular, more visceral. This is especially true with upright basses. Their warmth, and the uniqueness of their tone, comes through in an aurally attractive way.

You also got a sense of being able to hear the space around the bass – indeed, all of the instruments – in a way or to a leveI that I had not heard before in digital. This allowed for better placement and depth and a better ability to separate individual instruments from the mix. Of course, all of this was dependent on the recording, remastering, etc."

 

[Rasputin]

Hi guys, I'm happy to inform you that a professional review of the EMM Labs DA2I by Fred Crowder has just been posted on Dagogo. It's evidently a very honest and insightful review! He conclude (in part):

"The first thing that you notice with the DA2i, particularly with SACD’s, is the huge sound space that it creates, coupled with the increased air around instruments and sharper focus. A close second is the lowering of perceived noise and a concomitant increase in resolution, particularly at the soft end of the spectrum. Bass is not exactly bigger, but it is cleaner, and in particular, more visceral. This is especially true with upright basses. Their warmth, and the uniqueness of their tone, comes through in an aurally attractive way.

You also got a sense of being able to hear the space around the bass – indeed, all of the instruments – in a way or to a leveI that I had not heard before in digital. This allowed for better placement and depth and a better ability to separate individual instruments from the mix. Of course, all of this was dependent on the recording, remastering, etc."

what I read is
More recently, I spent several days at Goodwin’s in Boston listening to the Wadax digital stack and realized that the EMM Labs DA2 had been surpassed by a rather significant degree, particularly with respect to the resolution of low-level detail, dynamics, focus, soundstage and noise floor.

and then this
I purchased the DA2i and recommend that if you are in the market for a D/A converter in this price range or higher, you make a point to audition this unit before deciding to spend more.

Makes me wonder

 

[Yuen A.]

what I read is
More recently, I spent several days at Goodwin’s in Boston listening to the Wadax digital stack and realized that the EMM Labs DA2 had been surpassed by a rather significant degree, particularly with respect to the resolution of low-level detail, dynamics, focus, soundstage and noise floor.

and then this
I purchased the DA2i and recommend that if you are in the market for a D/A converter in this price range or higher, you make a point to audition this unit before deciding to spend more.

Makes me wonder

Fred also noted regarding the DA2I: "You also got a sense of being able to hear the space around the bass – indeed, all of the instruments – in a way or to a leveI that I had not heard before in digital."

 

[Ian B]

Hi guys, I'm happy to inform you that a professional review of the EMM Labs DA2I by Fred Crowder has just been posted on Dagogo. It's evidently a very honest and insightful review! He conclude (in part):

"The first thing that you notice with the DA2i, particularly with SACD’s, is the huge sound space that it creates, coupled with the increased air around instruments and sharper focus. A close second is the lowering of perceived noise and a concomitant increase in resolution, particularly at the soft end of the spectrum. Bass is not exactly bigger, but it is cleaner, and in particular, more visceral. This is especially true with upright basses. Their warmth, and the uniqueness of their tone, comes through in an aurally attractive way.

You also got a sense of being able to hear the space around the bass – indeed, all of the instruments – in a way or to a leveI that I had not heard before in digital. This allowed for better placement and depth and a better ability to separate individual instruments from the mix. Of course, all of this was dependent on the recording, remastering, etc."

It's a very interesting review and I appreciate his comments about the space and lower noise. That said, I feel like too much of the review was overshadowed by his quest to bring old RedBook CDs to vinyl quality. Seems a bit of a fools errand, esp when you realize how much the original analog to digital converter shapes and bottlenecks the sound.

I have no doubt that with a good enough DAC, SACDs can get very close or exceed vinyl quality.

Also, using an optical transport plays the DACs strengths. I'm more interested not just in SACD playback, but various HiRes through the streamer or a quality server.

 

[jeromelang]

I have no doubt that with a good enough DAC, SACDs can get very close or exceed vinyl quality.

This Freddie guy has no idea how good optical disc playback can be.

The things he just need to do:

(1) separate power supply circuit for transport and dac. Don't share from the same duplex.
(2) before playing any disc, shut down transport and dac to refresh (erase) playback memory. This needs to be done while the disc has been removed.
(3) proper power up sequence. Power up transport first. Load disc. Close tray, let it read toc and fully settle. Then power up dac.
(4) press play. Don't use remote.
(5) play through continuously. Don't skip tracks. Especially, do not use the remote.

 

[Yuen A.]

It's a very interesting review and I appreciate his comments about the space and lower noise. That said, I feel like too much of the review was overshadowed by his quest to bring old RedBook CDs to vinyl quality. Seems a bit of a fools errand, esp when you realize how much the original analog to digital converter shapes and bottlenecks the sound.

I have no doubt that with a good enough DAC, SACDs can get very close or exceed vinyl quality.

Also, using an optical transport plays the DACs strengths. I'm more interested not just in SACD playback, but various HiRes through the streamer or a quality server.

Hi Ian,

Yes, Fred listen exclusively to SACDs and CDs beside LPs. He doesn't have much experience listening to music via streamer or server. Hence, no mention of the performance of the built-in streamer.

Most of the Jazz/Pop music CDs available today are in the Redbook format and therefore he reviewed only these ones. Still, there are some very good Redbook CDs available.

 

[facten]

This Freddie guy has no idea how good optical disc playback can be.

The things he just need to do:

(1) separate power supply circuit for transport and dac. Don't share from the same duplex.
(2) before playing any disc, shut down transport and dac to refresh (erase) playback memory. This needs to be done while the disc has been removed.
(3) proper power up sequence. Power up transport first. Load disc. Close tray, let it read toc and fully settle. Then power up dac.
(4) press play. Don't use remote.
(5) play through continuously. Don't skip tracks. Especially, do not use the remote.

Why is any of this necessary? I have never done any of this and the discs and players all sound just fine.

 

[murphyzlaw]

Hey folks - just noticed the first online review of the unit in DA2i form, on dagogo. A lot of good (and favorable) comments from an LP lover. Some nice tips on material to look for too! https://www.dagogo.com/emm-labs-da2i-d-a-converter-review/

 

[Ian B]

Well, my DA2v2 is on the way to Calgary...will see how the upgrade goes when it returns, though most of my system is currently disassembled!

 

[pdubya]

Well, my DA2v2 is on the way to Calgary...will see how the upgrade goes when it returns, though most of my system is currently disassembled!

Did you arrange through dealer or directly with EMM? My dealer is not listed on distributor's website (though the dealer's website still says they sell EMM ...) Did they suggest a turnaround time? Thanks.

 

[Ian B]

Did you arrange through dealer or directly with EMM? My dealer is not listed on distributor's website (though the dealer's website still says they sell EMM ...) Did they suggest a turnaround time? Thanks.

I arranged it through EMM Labs directly. I don't know what the turnaround is.

 

[Alsatian]

Let us know what you think when you get your system up and running. I expect there will be a family resemblance with my MA3i upgrade.

 

[Ian B]

Let us know what you think when you get your system up and running. I expect there will be a family resemblance with my MA3i upgrade.

No doubt! I think it's largely the same upgrade, but they use a little less sophisticated PSU in the MA3.

The turnaround for my unit may be as few as a couple days, I might have it back next week! Unfortunately, I'll have to retrieve my other gear from storage in another city (did a lot of traveling, then a move) but I am pretty eager to hear the improvements. Of specific note will be whether losing my optical connection buffer (optinlink+NS1) will be worth it using the internal streamer and an attached SSD (Qobuz is only last resort).

When I research a little farther, it does look like they made some real improvements with the power supply, isolation to the different boards, and power filtering, which should result in lower noise, and the output stage is Class A with no global feedback, which is really interesting and I usually associate no-feedback designs with a very rich sound. I missed that on first glance, but I'm very interested the outcome.

 

[Ian B]

I got my DA2i a few minutes ago! My system, fresh from storage, isn't fully set up on the network so I'm having to test it straight from the cold via my grainy sounding MacBook Pro + USB with all my cables in a big pile. Already, the amount of space, width and depth, and accompanying detail is shocking. Drums seem to hit harder with more body too, and it does seem louder and more present than DA2. Very promising start.

 

[Alsatian]

I got my DA2i a few minutes ago! My system, fresh from storage, isn't fully set up on the network so I'm having to test it straight from the cold via my grainy sounding MacBook Pro + USB with all my cables in a big pile. Already, the amount of space, width and depth, and accompanying detail is shocking. Drums seem to hit harder with more body too, and it does seem louder and more present than DA2. Very promising start.

Congratulations! Please keep us posted. FYI, I spoke with my local dealer about the upgrade and he said that the new dac sounds best playing local files on a solid-state drive via usb. He claimed it was better than any streamer.

 

[Ian B]

Congratulations! Please keep us posted. FYI, I spoke with my local dealer about the upgrade and he said that the new dac sounds best playing local files on a solid-state drive via usb. He claimed it was better than any streamer.

Excellent, that's how I plan to do it. Still, just laptop to USB is pretty insane.

It likes the Altaira CGS, and seems like two cables are better than one.

 

[Mgperdices]

Excellent, that's how I plan to do it. Still, just laptop to USB is pretty insane.

It likes the Altaira CGS, and seems like two cables are better than one.

Hello, if you do manage to compare the internal streamer to the Ns1/AS cable, please let us know the results. I have both and am still debating whether to go the full upgrade route or stick with the ns1. Thank you!

 

[Ian B]

Hello, if you do manage to compare the internal streamer to the Ns1/AS cable, please let us know the results. I have both and am still debating whether to go the full upgrade route or stick with the ns1. Thank you!

When I get the time I'll try to do an NS1 comparison, but unfortunately the Aural Symphonies has been sold.

 

[Ian B]

Man, I don't want to speak too soon as I don't even have a good source or network set up, or to sound too pollyannish... Take it with a grain of salt, but I'm listening and keep wanting to exclaim curse words. The imaging...