Emm labs DA2 v2 upgrade

[gajgmusic]

Ian

Thanks for the update. I will say your early impressions echo my experience. I have had the DA2i in my system for a couple of months. I pulled out the old DA2 and put in the new unit. I don’t post a lot and I’m actually reluctant about making a lot of changes to my system. I used to be in the business and got tired of switching equipment all the time. I am also loathe to 'wax poetically' about most things, not in my nature. That being said, from the first few songs, the effects were transformational. I have no problem in saying this was the biggest improvement in my listening experience in the last 15 years. I won’t go into all the technical changes because I won't profess to be that knowledgable. All I can say is that it was startling, and I thought I was happy before. The soundstage was larger but more natural. The height and depth were also more lifelike. There is real oomph to the base and mid base. I have perceived no downsides whatsoever. There is just more music to enjoy. Simple as that.

Probably the best compliment I can make is that I also have a fairly good vinyl set up which I usually use to listen to jazz recorded in the 60s and 70s. The digital versions are really not of the same caliber. Recently I got a new LP, a re-issue by a well known label. It was ok, but I thought I would take a listen to it on the DA2i. It was no contest. The digital was so much more analog and lifelike that I gave the lp away.

Anyway my two cents, but just my opinion. If you have a chance, take a listen.

 

[gfroman]

Getting in the new EMM Labs DV2i DA/Preamp/Streamer this month.
Tic-Tok...............

***My DV2 unit is available for sale currently

 

[Jackey Huang]

Getting in the new EMM Labs DV2i DA/Preamp/Streamer this month.
Tic-Tok...............

***My DV2 unit is available for sale currently

I was wondering if you could talk about your upgrade to DV2i？thanks

 

[Ian B]

I've been holding off on commenting too much until I have every element in my system exactly as it was before the DA2i. I'm almost there, but there are some things that are pretty clear.

The image size, separation, detail, depth, and solidity are exceptional. That is what stands out to me first: Very spacious and big presentation layered in three dimensions. Noise is much lower and the resolving ability seems to go about as low as the source file is capable (!). The other big thing is how stable, balanced, and punchy the DAC is. It is significantly more rhythmically propulsive and impactful that the DA2v2 and really makes use of EMM Labs transient abilities. With the aforementioned stability, you also get more presence and texture.

For me, this is a stage of digital audio where the only real limitations I can find (without having it side by side with a DAC costing 3-10x the price) are in the other parts of my system. The DA2i is incredibly transparent. I can use descriptors for how impressive the sound stage and imaging are, and how propulsive transients and bass are, but aside from that, its sound is sort of "no sound". I think if you were imagining that it would sound like a DSD DAC, or a certain kind of power supply, or digital filter, one finds that it goes beyond having these characteristics. With colorations are limitations, and I can detect none here. This is especially true of digital colorations, lean sound, flatness, sharp edges, glare, etc etc. It has very little of these characteristics. Maybe it is easier to describe in philosophical language than standard technical jargon.

It might be possible to have a deeper depth of field in my system, though there is much depth and much pronounced layers in space and back wall audibility compare to the DA2v2. I've never heard this accomplished without adding distortion of some kind. This could be an issue with some of my SS electronics and not the DAC.

I can imagine someone might prefer a warmer, or tube-oriented DAC, if they want that flavor from their DAC specifically. But until I hear something that blows me away, this is end game. Nothing is missing that I can't attribute to the recording itself. I might want to introduce more warmth or tubes elsewhere in my system, but here nothing is lacking.

Anyway, that they could accomplish this in a single box design, without multiple transformers, or tesla coils etc etc speaks to the quality of engineering involved.

I will post some comments about the different digital inputs and streaming a bit later. I will suffice to say that the streamer with a well isolated external hard drive is satisfyingly transparent, and actual streamed audio sounds better than with NS1.

 

[Verdier]

***My DV2 unit is available for sale currently

And your Taiko?

 

[gfroman]

And your Taiko?

When I get the DV2i, I will be observing how the internal streamer performs compared to the Taiko. The Taiko may have to move on if the DV2i delivers.......

 

[Ian B]

I've had a little more time to evaluate the different connections. Unfortunately, I sold my Aural Symphonics Optimism Lotus cable and the Shunyata Sigma NR v2 that was going to my NS1, so I can't do a direct comparison with the Optilink input. Or AES. But here is a potentially overly detailed evaluation of my experiences with the USB, external USB drive, and network options.

From memory, I'd say that the internal streamer plus USB drive (with some electrical isolation) can pretty easily beat the NS1. I think this is sonically potentially the best way to do it, the streamer being so transparent, and without need of another box. I'm not at all helping my odds of selling my NS1, which hasn't moved for two months. I think the ethernet streaming with Qobuzz is also better, albeit it is still streaming.

On the flip side, I do think the optilink cable may have had a little smoother and sweeter top end, but as a whole the DA2 via external USB SSD (and maybe even regular USB input) is a lot better. I still strongly suspect that the very best audio quality to be had is with the Optimism Lotus and TX2.

The USB input greatly impressed me, and I think it has made big strides over the USB on the DA2v2. With the ethernet disconnected, USB actually had the calmest sound (though obviously my laptop is not up to the audio quality of the DA2i internal steamer). I think with a great server and USB cable this could also sound fantastic. On the DA2v2 I always preferred optilink, and almost always preferred AES.

Despite these inputs being greatly improved, it is still true of USB and ethernet that one needs to invest a lot upstream to keep noise down. The DA2i itself will not be the bottleneck, but to get the most out of it you do need reference quality digital connections. I have glimpsed just how good it can get with my Taiko Switch, Shunyata Omega digital cables, and Altaira system, but I think I have farther to go (ultimately Taiko Router+DC Filter+better ethernet and USB filters). As of now, I'm relying on some iFi ethernet and USB filters that trade lower noise with some air and depth, and they may not be up to scale with this DAC.

One annoying issue I am having is likely a network problem of my own creation, but it could be in some part related to the DA2i USB drive input. Upstream of my Taiko Switch I'm using a Netgear wifi extender to convert the wifi signal to ethernet, because I'm not in a part of the house with CAT6. The problem is: Sometimes the network forgets the DA2i, and I have to reset it with the power switch on the back.

Less endearing is when it forgets my external SSD, which then requires me unplugging and plugging cables in several times, closing and opening MControl etc. My guess is the network loses track of the external drive more easily than the DAC, and is harder to make it visible again. This happened on occasion with my old NS1 straight to the router setup, and was easily remedied, but now it happens quite frequently and more annoying. Maybe it's not a DAC problem. It probably isn't, but I will say right now what I am doing with the external SSD is not a reliable solution. So if you want to do this and save the money of a reference quality server, probably use a fully wired ethernet connection...I am curious how others experiences are, if my problem is just Netgear.

****

All that aside, I keep being impressed by the sound of the DAC, especially things that originally drew me to DSD in the first place: A sense of completeness, that every detail is accounted for and whole, unobscured. This is especially true with reverbs and echos, the entire decay is audible in a totally natural way and resolved to smooth and absolute completion. It's something really satisfying that no other digital platform I've heard so far can do. The same is true for vocal textures. This smooth resolving quality also makes for really believable three dimensional layering and spacious staging. And improved from the DA2, this DAC also really rocks and packs a musical punch, so it's not just texture and detail.

 

[Yuen A.]

I've had a little more time to evaluate the different connections. Unfortunately, I sold my Aural Symphonics Optimism Lotus cable and the Shunyata Sigma NR v2 that was going to my NS1, so I can't do a direct comparison with the Optilink input. Or AES. But here is a potentially overly detailed evaluation of my experiences with the USB, external USB drive, and network options.

From memory, I'd say that the internal streamer plus USB drive (with some electrical isolation) can pretty easily beat the NS1. I think this is sonically potentially the best way to do it, the streamer being so transparent, and without need of another box. I'm not at all helping my odds of selling my NS1, which hasn't moved for two months. I think the ethernet streaming with Qobuzz is also better, albeit it is still streaming.

On the flip side, I do think the optilink cable may have had a little smoother and sweeter top end, but as a whole the DA2 via external USB SSD (and maybe even regular USB input) is a lot better. I still strongly suspect that the very best audio quality to be had is with the Optimism Lotus and TX2.

The USB input greatly impressed me, and I think it has made big strides over the USB on the DA2v2. With the ethernet disconnected, USB actually had the calmest sound (though obviously my laptop is not up to the audio quality of the DA2i internal steamer). I think with a great server and USB cable this could also sound fantastic. On the DA2v2 I always preferred optilink, and almost always preferred AES.

Despite these inputs being greatly improved, it is still true of USB and ethernet that one needs to invest a lot upstream to keep noise down. The DA2i itself will not be the bottleneck, but to get the most out of it you do need reference quality digital connections. I have glimpsed just how good it can get with my Taiko Switch, Shunyata Omega digital cables, and Altaira system, but I think I have farther to go (ultimately Taiko Router+DC Filter+better ethernet and USB filters). As of now, I'm relying on some iFi ethernet and USB filters that trade lower noise with some air and depth, and they may not be up to scale with this DAC.

One annoying issue I am having is likely a network problem of my own creation, but it could be in some part related to the DA2i USB drive input. Upstream of my Taiko Switch I'm using a Netgear wifi extender to convert the wifi signal to ethernet, because I'm not in a part of the house with CAT6. The problem is: Sometimes the network forgets the DA2i, and I have to reset it with the power switch on the back.

Less endearing is when it forgets my external SSD, which then requires me unplugging and plugging cables in several times, closing and opening MControl etc. My guess is the network loses track of the external drive more easily than the DAC, and is harder to make it visible again. This happened on occasion with my old NS1 straight to the router setup, and was easily remedied, but now it happens quite frequently and more annoying. Maybe it's not a DAC problem. It probably isn't, but I will say right now what I am doing with the external SSD is not a reliable solution. So if you want to do this and save the money of a reference quality server, probably use a fully wired ethernet connection...I am curious how others experiences are, if my problem is just Netgear.

****

All that aside, I keep being impressed by the sound of the DAC, especially things that originally drew me to DSD in the first place: A sense of completeness, that every detail is accounted for and whole, unobscured. This is especially true with reverbs and echos, the entire decay is audible in a totally natural way and resolved to smooth and absolute completion. It's something really satisfying that no other digital platform I've heard so far can do. The same is true for vocal textures. This smooth resolving quality also makes for really believable three dimensional layering and spacious staging. And improved from the DA2, this DAC also really rocks and packs a musical punch, so it's not just texture and detail.

Hi Ian, thank you so much for taking the time to share with us your insightful observations! I will also provide a detailed write -up on how the DV2i is performing via SACDS as compared to the DV2 and to live unamplified classical music in one or two months time.

 

[Ian B]

Hi Ian, thank you so much for taking the time to share with us your insightful observations! I will also provide a detailed write -up on how the DV2i is performing via SACDS as compared to the DV2 and to live unamplified classical music in one or two months time.

That should be very interesting! As pure a test case as is possible. I think you will be very impressed with the changes.

 

[Roger Huston]

View attachment 139049

Interest check - Does anyone here want a DA2i? Ping me personally.

 

[gfroman]

Anyone care to share their experience with any upgraded power cords on the new EMM Labs components?
Currently using a Stealth Audio and Shunyata Delta power cords.
But upgrading cords on my DV2 don't seem to really effect the audio much?
Maybe plugging into the Everest power conditioner does most the clean up in noise.

 

[Ian B]

Anyone care to share their experience with any upgraded power cords on the new EMM Labs components?
Currently using a Stealth Audio and Shunyata Delta power cords.
But upgrading cords on my DV2 don't seem to really effect the audio much?
Maybe plugging into the Everest power conditioner does most the clean up in noise.

I went from Shunyata Alpha NR, to Sigma NR v2, to Omega QR-s. I found they each did change the sound considerably, but where it finally sounded "right" was with Omega. I use a Denali v2+Typhon T2 combo, which is essentially an Everest, and the Omega XC C19 to the wall.

 

[Ian B]

Man, I've said it before but the DA2i really slaps! The speed and punch of transients is instantaneous with nothing held back. I've never heard anything this fast. I listen to a lot of soul stuff like Isaac Hayes, where the drums and bass guitar hit at the same time, it is so tight. I think it took me a little while to fully realize just how quick the timing is.

 

[gfroman]

I have a Synergistic Research Master Fuse in my current DV2 and really like it.
Debating if I will swap it into the DV2i when it arrives.......

 

[Ian B]

I have a Synergistic Research Master Fuse in my current DV2 and really like it.
Debating if I will swap it into the DV2i when it arrives.......

I had seriously thought about doing this with my DA2, but ultimately didn't want to take apart the DAC and shielded high-voltage power supply.

I've had great results with SR fuses in other DACs. I actually felt like any of my gear that didn't have an aftermarket fuse just didn't sound right, and with the DA2 it was an itch I couldn't scratch. Amadeus said if I ever wanted, they would do it for me (but would prefer not to). Granted, I'd have to ship it to Calgary...

The DA2i/DV2i needs the noise reduction and extra current a lot less. It honestly would probably sound a little better, though hard to imagine it, and at this point I don't think I need it. I have a Master Fuse elsewhere in my system, so I get some of the benefit.

If you can do it easily, might as well. But if you find it a lot of hassle, there is much less necessity.

Now that you've planted the seed, though I'm going to try not to think about this because I'm already very happy with the DA2i as is.

Let us know what you find with DV2i stock, and if you swap the fuse, the results.

 

[Roger Huston]

Been there a week, no one responded.

This is crazy. You must be trying to move that FAST.

Been there over a week, no one responded.

 

[gfroman]

Just got in the EMM Labs DV2i and about to swqp out the stock fuse for the Synergistic Research Master Fuse + Stealth Audio Cloude Grande Cu power cord.....

 

[Ian B]

Did you get to spend some time with it before opening it up?

 

[gfroman]

I went ahead and installed the Master Fuse, first thing without listening to stock fuse.
I liked how it sounded in my original DV2 so no worries.

(My DV2 is for sale if anyone is interested!)

 

[Roger Huston]

My DA2i unit is available on US Audiomart: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650175388-emm-labs-da2i-stereo-da-integrated-converter/.

I've dropped the price 3 times.

Thank you to EMM and the Meitner team. They stepped in and to help me sell the unit. I very much appreciate their help. Again, this was a great unit, I just needed to sell for personal reasons and needed money right away.