End game pre amp + amp upgrade

[microstrip]

Yes. I did the check in two different systems. It was consistent. And attributable to the amps. If you did an incorrect assessment that's your problem.

I have no problem in disagreeing in audio matters - for me it is part of the hobby. I have experience enough with Nagra to know that such opinions on those particular weaknesses based on listening in two anonymous systems should be taken with care.

I considered the Nagra HD for the XLF's after trying the Classic at my system. The experience did not proceed because the HD preamplifier was not available for demo at that time and considering the weight and size I postponed it until I could try the whole system. Meanwhile the system changed ...

Nagra often shares demos with Wilson. Although all reports should be taken with many grains of salt, interested people can immediately find plenty of opinions on the Nagra's bass performance just googling the two brands.

And no, I am not buying Nagra ...

 

[bonzo75]

I have no problem in disagreeing in audio matters - for me it is part of the hobby. I have experience enough with Nagra to know that such opinions on those particular weaknesses based on listening in two anonymous systems should be taken with care.

I considered the Nagra HD for the XLF's after trying the Classic at my system. The experience did not proceed because the HD preamplifier was not available for demo at that time and considering the weight and size I postponed it until I could try the whole system. Meanwhile the system changed ...

Nagra often shares demos with Wilson. Although all reports should be taken with many grains of salt, interested people can immediately find plenty of opinions on the Nagra's bass performance just googling the two brands.

And no, I am not buying Nagra ...

It is often paired with YG at audio shows too, which means nothing, because that is the one it underdrives compared to many other amps on the YG which sound much better. I am quite convinced it's not good electronics. If others think otherwise that is fine. Like you suggested, they can always go by Google and buy

 

[microstrip]

It is often paired with YG at audio shows too, which means nothing, because that is the one it underdrives compared to many other amps on the YG which sound much better. I am quite convinced it's not good electronics. If others think otherwise that is fine. Like you suggested, they can always go by Google and buy

I would like to know what is your definition of "good electronics" ...

And you comment just strengthens my arguments - if we feel Nagra underdrives a speaker we should never make our opinion on Nagra based on such auditions.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Could you explain your second comment?

I would certainly form an opinion of an amp that failed to adequately drive a pair of speakers. I would then want to discover if it falls down with other speakers also, which would be a black mark if they were similar to mine, and effectively rule it out of contention

 

[microstrip]

Could you explain your second comment?

I would certainly form an opinion of an amp that failed to adequately drive a pair of speakers. I would then want to discover if it falls down with other speakers also, which would be a black mark if they were similar to mine, and effectively rule it out of contention

You would surely form an opinion on this pairing, but not generically on the amplifier. And I would be very careful with what you consider "similar to mine". What parameters are you addressing to establish the similitude?

 

[infinitely baffled]

You would surely form an opinion on this pairing, but not generically on the amplifier. And I would be very careful with what you consider "similar to mine". What parameters are you addressing to establish the similitude?

Horns, dipoles or conventional designs. Individually or commonly baffled drivers. Single or multiple drivers.
Easy or difficult load. Sensitivity. Passive or partially active.
So if a certain design excels on Evolution Acoustic or Wilson speakers, I feel more confident it is able to cope with my Focal.
If another design is reviewed and shown with high sensitivity horns i would obviously need to be convinced it would also cope with multiple sealed drivers

Although tbh the most important parameter is the choice of program material

 

[microstrip]

Horns, dipoles or conventional designs. Individually or commonly baffled drivers. Single or multiple drivers.
Easy or difficult load. Sensitivity. Passive or partially active.
So if a certain design excels on Evolution Acoustic or Wilson speakers, I feel more confident it is able to cope with my Focal.
If another design is reviewed and shown with high sensitivity horns i would obviously need to be convinced it would also cope with multiple sealed drivers

Although tbh the most important parameter is the choice of program material

You just addressing a bunch of qualitative aspects and feelings - IMHO your appreciation will too subjective to be generalized.

And considering Wilson's each speaker is a different case. The only Focal I owned - the old Grande Utopia BE was extremely difficult to drive. Much harder than the Wilson Maxx III, for example.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Well I'll be the first to admit I'm no authority on Wilsons.
But the point remains, it is possible to extrapolate lessons from how two components combine in order to assess what each brings to the table when paired differently. This is the basis of all reviews

 

[microstrip]

Well I'll be the first to admit I'm no authority on Wilsons.
But the point remains, it is possible to extrapolate lessons from how two components combine in order to assess what each brings to the table when paired differently. This is the basis of all reviews

Reviews are not supposed to happen in an short time in a shop demo or a short visit to a owner with a fixed system. If the component plays poorly in the reviewer system, the editor gets another reviewer. And IMHO reviews are information - and entertainment - at best, if what I read triggers my attention I am better prepared to listen to it.

But yes, I am an audio review skeptic.

 

[bonzo75]

Reviews are not supposed to happen in an short time in a shop demo or a short visit to a owner with a fixed system. If the component plays poorly in the reviewer system, the editor gets another reviewer. And IMHO reviews are information - and entertainment - at best, if what I read triggers my attention I am better prepared to listen to it.

But yes, I am an audio review skeptic.

What, you are now giving out criteria for reviewer certificates? When things are closer you can take time... When one thing works and another is poor even you will be able to hear in a short time

 

[SuperDave]

What, you are now giving out criteria for reviewer certificates? When things are closer you can take time... When one thing works and another is poor even you will be able to hear in a short time

There may be no synergy between certain amps and speakers which don't make either poor quality just not good together.

Dave

 

[jh901]

Are T+A P3000 HV and A3000 HV not relevant in the discussion of SS "destination" amplification?

 

[infinitely baffled]

I would say not.
I had a dealer bring them plus the T and A cd player round to try in my system.
Both resulted in an immediate, stark loss of musicality when swapped in for my Wavac pre amp and YBA cd player, replaced with an antiseptic sterility. Shortest audition ever

 

[LL21]

Hi. Just finished a visit with Touraj at Vertere who was incredibly passionate, knowledgeable and clearly committed to a combination of quality and honesty about sound.

We focused on FM Acoustics, and having some limited knowledge of his digital and speakers...I could get a sense of what the FM is bringing to the table. In a nutshell, what is nice about FM is that it seems to make it all look so easy to do. It makes the music come across as perfectly ordinary/normal...there is not an emphasis on articulation or anything for that matter. Hence why I suspect some may say (erroneously in my initial impression) "nothing special" when in fact for me I have rarely heard music come across so easily without artifact or signature. It is kind of like...why doesn't all audio sound like this?

Very impressive though I fully acknowledge price of membership is steep. Am likely to do a home audition.