Entreq Coming for Testing/Measurements
- Thread starter amirm
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To correct you just a bit... not Power Supply quality but Power Quality ... IEEE has several peer reviewed papers on the subject, some of them scholarly some not .. Google is your friend .. interesting read.. People in IT can show you beyond chance occurrences and anecdotes its (Power Quality) effect on components performance, reliability and longevity. As for its sonic implications, I have repeated many times that I have not performed any semblance of objective tests. Living part time in a country where Power Quality can affect (read destroy) anything from audio amplifiers to toaster oven in a matter of seconds or months.. i have taken the safe approach of always using a double conversion UPS in any system and can anecdotally declare it seems to make a difference ... The other part of the time I live in the Lightning Capital of the World, Florida better to blow a Battery Charger than my Burmester 911 MK3 the amp I keep on coming back to 25 years after hearing its first iteration
Just corrected the power mistake, thanks!
Yes, thousands of papers on power quality but none on the effects of power quality in high end sound quality. On the contrary, we have hundreds of thousands of pages on textbooks explaining power supply rejection ratios and similar aspects of equipment design assuring us that performance of properly designed equipment is not be affected by power supply quality as long a it is within the electrical regulations and codes.
As far as I remember your many enthusiastic posts of the past on power quality were not on reliability, but on sound quality. Can we consider if a tweak is proved to increase readability it becomes scientific and is free from being measured and proved?
BTW, as far as I know the Burmester 911 MK3 is not 25 years old - it is a very tweaked version of the original 911. Congratulations!
Just corrected the power mistake, thanks!
Yes, thousands of papers on power quality but none on the effects of power quality in high end sound quality. On the contrary, we have hundreds of thousands of pages on textbooks explaining power supply rejection ratios and similar aspects of equipment design assuring us that performance of properly designed equipment is not be affected by power supply quality as long a it is within the electrical regulations and codes.
As far as I remember your many enthusiastic posts of the past on power quality were not on reliability, but on sound quality. Can we consider if a tweak is proved to increase readability it becomes scientific and is free from being measured and proved?
BTW, as far as I know the Burmester 911 MK3 is not 25 years old - it is a very tweaked version of the original 911. Congratulations!
The 911 Mk1 can be brought to Mk3.. The original design is 25 years old ... and the tweaked version is about 10 to 15 years old... Pretty old by High ENd standard where the newer and shinier come up with frightening regularity and are of course always better .. Burmester and FM Acoustics seem not to subscribe to this notion ..
As for my enthusiastic reference to PQ .. I remain so am but would not maintain with any fervor that under scrutiny my observations would hold ... A little different from your position on "most" tweaks?
Again, a statement in dire need of some data to validate it. Show me valid scientific evaluation that shows "most of them change sound quality." The science as it exists, says almost none of them do. Objective measurements confirm the same.
Your job as a smart consumer is to not be susceptible to the marketing efforts of companies. Statements like yours and assumes presumption of efficacy is huge enemy of that. It pre-conditions people to believe and that is the fastest way to separate you from your money with no sound wave reaching your brain being any different.
Strange device coming from north? Now that was a big insult if I ever heard one.
This device has garnered a ton of interest on this forum. It was through those discussions that the company founder decided to join and offer the device to evaluate. I was going to buy one myself but he thought it would be better if a higher-end one was to be evaluated. I commend PO for making such an offer. Your damning of his nationality and validity of tweak products from that part of the world is in very poor form and demonstrate a level of discrimination which I did not think we would ever tolerate on the forum. Please take that kind of conduct elsewhere.
Not with respect to sound quality. They only show transient power response on the cable itself.
This is not the thread to debate Burmester, but this brand represents exactly the jubilation of tweaks - the belt driven CD player, components chosen by ear - combined with the best of technology. I can say we share the admiration for this company - if it was not for the very low impedance impedance I would have tried the 911 mk3 in my system.
I think our position is exactly the same - each of us has his preferred tweaks and we are in permanent evolution of preference. I openly admit it, you try to hide it ...
BTW, I am not a feverous tweaker - my system only (external) tweaks are a power conditioner, power and signal cables. They are enough to force me to consider that other people tweaks may be equally valid.
The (external) reference is needed because my CD player has a platform sitting on stainless steel spheres and is sitting in an Finite Element tuned rack ...
(...) Strange device coming from north? Now that was a big insult if I ever heard one.
This device has garnered a ton of interest on this forum. It was through those discussions that the company founder decided to join and offer the device to evaluate. I was going to buy one myself but he thought it would be better if a higher-end one was to be evaluated. I commend PO for making such an offer. Your damning of his nationality and validity of tweak products from that part of the world is in very poor form and demonstrate a level of discrimination which I did not think we would ever tolerate on the forum. Please take that kind of conduct elsewhere.
Please get some sense of humor ... Just added a smile to the comment for making it clear ...
Please try to avoid distorting the sense of other people sentences.
And please try not to moderate informally threads in which you participate directly in the debate.
I would suggest that the analogue out of a USB DAC be measured with/without Intona in place when a definite audible difference is being perceived.
This would give everybody a baseline evaluation of the usefulness of measurements vs audibility
This would give everybody a baseline evaluation of the usefulness of measurements vs audibility
My job as a consumer is also knowing about the limitations of measurements and listening to great systems and equipment and choosing those that please my preference using the tools and methods available. WBF is a great forum to get such information from people who own and play with such systems.
You can go to the rest of WBF for such pleasure. Please don't keep randomizing this part of the forum where we discuss what we can objectively demonstrate. Not put papers forward that don't apply to the topic, and you have not read or understood yourself.
Northern countries are considered some of the most evolved and brilliant countries in the world, both in wealth, socially and culture. Famous for their open minds. IMHO everyone knows about it and will not have such dubious interpretation about my sentence as your mind did.
I will however edit to the country of origin in my post.
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The papers apply on topic - interference of RF on audio in the very high frequencies. IMHO this is the key point (if it really works) of the Entreq. Just repeating the same false argument about my reading capabilities one thousand times will not make it more valuable. But please go on showing pictures of the electric field meter at 60 Hz.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Here's the reality as I see it.
This thread has done exactly what the op set out to do and is now free falling as I predicted. What is remarkable is that none of the Entreq users here at WBF ( and there are countless users with positive results) could give a rat's ass about the measurements or the results. In summary this is what Amir has stated.....
I used my reference audio clips which sound superb with or without this box and put a smile on my face as I type this. The box plays no role.
as far as I am concerned this should end it or are we going to descend through the slippery slope and let this thread become what the last Entreq thread became
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Not the Internet of course but in the world of audio forums, it is a big deal. I have lost count but I think we have some 50 forums. The traffic on this forum is higher than 45 of them. It is in the top of half of our most popular forums.
In the last three days, our analytics show that this subforum is more popular than any other thread on the forum than the ones related to Munich show and B&W announcement.
This is the power of data. It cuts through opinion and brings something solid you can rely upon. It is tangible and touchable.
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