Entreq Tellus grounding

[Detlof]

Thanks Detlof
You have a very extensive and sophisticated system so fitting the Everests may well be a more complex exercise which needs a bit more time.
The right thing to do as you say is to persevere, let them settle in and listen with the full suite of Everests, If they don't suit the system so be it but again as you acknowledge they may be exposing some hitherto hidden small weakness in the system. That would be something of a mixed blessing because I imagine identifying the source of it may not be straightforward.
Good luck!

Thank you Barry. Well, the Purist disk took care of that "hidden small weakness", which by the way was not small by a long shot. All is back to normal. The question is where did the degaussing take effect. Since the system sounded right before the Es were added and with the Es installed sounded wrong in the top end and the Purist did bring the sound back to normal with the Es installed, the assumption seems permissible that not the system per se, but the Everests were changed for better sound by the degaussing process and by prolonged use. Simply put, they need to break in, so my hypothesis. So far in my thinking, my rig was and is ok and now, with the obviously tamed Everests I am hoping that they will still bring those improvements you and others are writing about.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thank you Barry. Well, the Purist disk took care of that "hidden small weakness", which by the way was not small by a long shot. All is back to normal. The question is where did the degaussing take effect. Since the system sounded right before the Es were added and with the Es installed sounded wrong in the top end and the Purist did bring the sound back to normal with the Es installed, the assumption seems permissible that not the system per se, but the Everests were changed for better sound by the degaussing process and by prolonged use. Simply put, they need to break in, so my hypothesis. So far in my thinking, my rig was and is ok and now, with the obviously tamed Everests I am hoping that they will still bring those improvements you and others are writing about.

last winter when I added my Furutech NCF plugs on my power cords, I had a brightness from the amplifier power cords. I placed those power cords on the Audiokharma Cable Cooker and that brightness was considerably reduced, and adjusting my crossover eliminated it.

extreme high resolution systems are somewhat knife edge to get to all the musical truth.

any time openness is improved or the noise floor drops frequency balance can be upset. what is hiding what is a mystery until it gets uncovered. more information can cut more than one way. sometimes we don't want to know everything.

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

more information can cut more than one way. sometimes we don't want to know everything.

Precisely.

 

[Detlof]

last winter when I added my Furutech NCF plugs on my power cords, I had a brightness from the amplifier power cords. I placed those power cords on the Audiokharma Cable Cooker and that brightness was considerably reduced, and adjusting my crossover eliminated it.

any time openness is improved or the noise floor drops frequency balance can be upset. what is hiding what is a mystery until it gets uncovered. more information can cut more than one way. sometimes we don't want to know everything.

Thank you Mike. Food for thought. Your input is really helpful and much appreciated. Both the occurrences which I in fact observed, first the slight shift in the soundstage when the left Poseidon was fitted with the three Es, could speak for a slight change in openness or lower noise floor in the channel in question, whereas the elevated top end certainly would point to a changed frequency balance. I see no need to change settings in my crossover for the moment. Taking in what you pointed out, I now think that my hypothesis for the Everests to need break in, though not completely wrong, may have well been too simplicistic.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thank you Mike. Food for thought. Your input is really helpful and much appreciated. Both the occurrences which I in fact observed, first the slight shift in the soundstage when the left Poseidon was fitted with the three Es, could speak for a slight change in openness or lower noise floor in the channel in question, whereas the elevated top end certainly would point to a changed frequency balance. I see no need to change settings in my crossover for the moment. Taking in what you pointed out, I now think that my hypothesis for the Everests to need break in, though not completely wrong, may have well been too simplicistic.

to further underline your point; later with the Furutech NCF plugs I had to go back and readjust my crossover once the plugs broke in fully. it was a bit too thick sounding with full break-in....and closer to the previous spot was more correct long term.

 

[Detlof]

to further underline your point; later with the Furutech NCF plugs I had to go back and readjust my crossover once the plugs broke in fully. it was a bit too thick sounding with full break-in....and closer to the previous spot was more correct long term.

Mike, I think you put me on the right track. I let the Es settle in further and in the next stages of careful listening I used solo piano recordings, classical mostly, a sound I am most familiar with, both from concerts and my own playing (horrible, not Horowitz).
This time around, I felt I had to tame the upper octave on my crossover by about 3db and no longer being distracted by a top end too edgy, I could settle in to some serious listening. (Later I went back to less than 2db!) I know now, that the shift in energy I had thought to have heard from my left speaker, when I added the Es to the left Poseidon was not imagined. It was real. In fact I would say now, that the Everests energise the system, not only in the highs, but throughout the entire bandwith. Sviatoslav Richter, the great Russian pianist, say on Schubert 960, can play with enormous dynamic swings, but also incredibly subtle nuances in tonality and phrasing. This time around, I could hear deeper into the music after I had reduced the volume ever so slightly, because I found his fffs just a tad too much at my normal listening levels. The effect is less than subtle, but it is there and very hard to describe.
Perhaps changing a seat in an already very good concert hall comes close. Again, no veils were removed on my system, the effect rather seems to play out, to my ears at least, in a very subtle change for the better in dynamics, as the music ever changes in the wide ranges of ppp to fff, from a whisper to a crash. Again, I found no change in tonality, in the way I had voiced my system. The change for the better seemed to be in the flow as the music evolved, in the both subtle and more pronounced changes in the dynamic process. Quite a feat!

 

[Barry2013]

That is interesting Detlof.
Your faith in Entreq's ability to reveal more of the music has been justified as a result of your perseverance.
I suppose the moral of the story is that there are no short cuts in the search for better quality sound and you have to work at it.
Another good example of the fallibility of tick box solutions!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, I think you put me on the right track. I let the Es settle in further and in the next stages of careful listening I used solo piano recordings, classical mostly, a sound I am most familiar with, both from concerts and my own playing (horrible, not Horowitz).
This time around, I felt I had to tame the upper octave on my crossover by about 3db and no longer being distracted by a top end too edgy, I could settle in to some serious listening. (Later I went back to less than 2db!) I know now, that the shift in energy I had thought to have heard from my left speaker, when I added the Es to the left Poseidon was not imagined. It was real. In fact I would say now, that the Everests energise the system, not only in the highs, but throughout the entire bandwith. Sviatoslav Richter, the great Russian pianist, say on Schubert 960, can play with enormous dynamic swings, but also incredibly subtle nuances in tonality and phrasing. This time around, I could hear deeper into the music after I had reduced the volume ever so slightly, because I found his fffs just a tad too much at my normal listening levels. The effect is less than subtle, but it is there and very hard to describe.
Perhaps changing a seat in an already very good concert hall comes close. Again, no veils were removed on my system, the effect rather seems to play out, to my ears at least, in a very subtle change for the better in dynamics, as the music ever changes in the wide ranges of ppp to fff, from a whisper to a crash. Again, I found no change in tonality, in the way I had voiced my system. The change for the better seemed to be in the flow as the music evolved, in the both subtle and more pronounced changes in the dynamic process. Quite a feat!

I am happy to hear that the Everest's are bringing you more musical truth......your system getting just a bit more out of the way.

an extremely high resolution system truly in balance is not always tolerant of change. all that truth tells us a bit too much sometimes, but we must be open minded to what is really happeneing. even when change is 'more' of something (or multiple something's). balance must again be found so the change can be complimentary and synergistic. we have to work a little to earn the step forward. we cannot just plug and play stuff. although sometimes it is that simple to add a piece and it just adds......

 

[Detlof]

I am happy to hear that the Everest's are bringing you more musical truth......your system getting just a bit more out of the way...

Yes, that describes it best. Thank you Mike.

 

[dandylinpsst]

any news for tellus II,new model?

 

[bonzo75]

Mike, I think you put me on the right track. I let the Es settle in further and in the next stages of careful listening I used solo piano recordings, classical mostly, a sound I am most familiar with, both from concerts and my own playing (horrible, not Horowitz).
This time around, I felt I had to tame the upper octave on my crossover by about 3db and no longer being distracted by a top end too edgy, I could settle in to some serious listening. (Later I went back to less than 2db!) I know now, that the shift in energy I had thought to have heard from my left speaker, when I added the Es to the left Poseidon was not imagined. It was real. In fact I would say now, that the Everests energise the system, not only in the highs, but throughout the entire bandwith. Sviatoslav Richter, the great Russian pianist, say on Schubert 960, can play with enormous dynamic swings, but also incredibly subtle nuances in tonality and phrasing. This time around, I could hear deeper into the music after I had reduced the volume ever so slightly, because I found his fffs just a tad too much at my normal listening levels. The effect is less than subtle, but it is there and very hard to describe.
Perhaps changing a seat in an already very good concert hall comes close. Again, no veils were removed on my system, the effect rather seems to play out, to my ears at least, in a very subtle change for the better in dynamics, as the music ever changes in the wide ranges of ppp to fff, from a whisper to a crash. Again, I found no change in tonality, in the way I had voiced my system. The change for the better seemed to be in the flow as the music evolved, in the both subtle and more pronounced changes in the dynamic process. Quite a feat!

Detlof, do you have Richter's Liszt Piano Concertos on LP, Philips label, it's awesome

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Detlof, do you have Richter's Liszt Piano Concertos on LP, Philips label, it's awesome

agree. a very fine recording.....and even though I'm no classical expert I love the playing.

 

[Detlof]

Detlof, do you have Richter's Liszt Piano Concertos on LP, Philips label, it's awesome

Yes Ked, I do. Wished I could find it though.

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

Yes Ked, I do. Wished I could find it though.

Speakers Corner reissued it a couple of years ago. Still available if you look. That's the one made by the same Mercury team who recorded Byron Janis in Russia playing the same concerto a few years earlier (and I personally prefer the latter though it can be bright in some systems so might not be the best bet for yours - the Richter recording is more naturally balanced).

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/6...iszt_Concertos_Nos_1__2-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record

 

[LL21]

Yes Ked, I do. Wished I could find it though.

In case you need another one, this apparently is a 24-96 remaster which i got :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00005CCAD/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Barry2013]

Mike, I think you put me on the right track. I let the Es settle in further and in the next stages of careful listening I used solo piano recordings, classical mostly, a sound I am most familiar with, both from concerts and my own playing (horrible, not Horowitz).
This time around, I felt I had to tame the upper octave on my crossover by about 3db and no longer being distracted by a top end too edgy, I could settle in to some serious listening. (Later I went back to less than 2db!) I know now, that the shift in energy I had thought to have heard from my left speaker, when I added the Es to the left Poseidon was not imagined. It was real. In fact I would say now, that the Everests energise the system, not only in the highs, but throughout the entire bandwith. Sviatoslav Richter, the great Russian pianist, say on Schubert 960, can play with enormous dynamic swings, but also incredibly subtle nuances in tonality and phrasing. This time around, I could hear deeper into the music after I had reduced the volume ever so slightly, because I found his fffs just a tad too much at my normal listening levels. The effect is less than subtle, but it is there and very hard to describe.
Perhaps changing a seat in an already very good concert hall comes close. Again, no veils were removed on my system, the effect rather seems to play out, to my ears at least, in a very subtle change for the better in dynamics, as the music ever changes in the wide ranges of ppp to fff, from a whisper to a crash. Again, I found no change in tonality, in the way I had voiced my system. The change for the better seemed to be in the flow as the music evolved, in the both subtle and more pronounced changes in the dynamic process. Quite a feat!

Hi Detlof/Mike
I was reflecting on your experience with the Everests and the helpful advice from Mike based on his experience of changing to the NCF plugs.
As you know I am a long term fan of the Entreq range. In particular the way they reduce and eliminate the noise floor and other unwanted distortions without losing the essential musicality of the sound. I have heard a number of highly regarded high end systems, albeit at Munich, and so many of them while being very transparent seemed to me lack the ability to communicate with me and to sound rather sterile. The Entreq filtering, to my ears, has the ability to get rid of the harmful sounds and to preserve those we appreciate.
It may be that as you progress up the Entreq ladder it progressively removes such unwanted noise including that which is not immediately audible, but once gone enhances the sound quality of what you do hear in the way that high quality bass reproduction provides a frame in which the mids and highs can be better heard.
The challenge involved in getting that superior sound reminds me of the challenge facing the pharmaceutical and medical professions. Many effective drugs not only knockout the intended target but also the body's good bacteria etc which can result in people succumbing to other infections and killing them. Hence the obvious attraction of newer treatments which trigger or enhance the body's own natural defences.
It seems to me that audio designers face a very similar challenge and identifying the precise cause and effects of design changes, particularly those you cannot objectively measure, adds to the challenge. We have to rely on our ears and your summing up rang very true to me and in accord with my own experience of the Entreq benefits.

 

[justubes]

Hi Mike,

Do the ncf sonics have any incompatability with the entreqs, being too thick sounding?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike,

Do the ncf sonics have any incompatability with the entreqs, being too thick sounding?

I'm sorry if I was not more clear in my writing, or maybe you are not familiar with the contexts from previous posts. I will try to explain (apologies at getting long winded here but it's a little complicated to say in a few words).

first of all; no, there is nothing 'thick' about the Furutech NCF plugs and outlets. in fact, it is exactly the opposite of that as the NCF products from Furutech absolutely open up things and allow for a cleaner transfer of information by reducing AC line noise and lowering the noise floor.

I (my dealer Joe) had installed the NFC plugs on all my Absolute Fidelity power cords (9 of them) but i saved for last the Evolution Acoustics power cords I used for my dart mono blocks (as I contemplated sending those back to Evolution for the install). up till that point none of installation of the NCF plugs on the power cords had caused any FR problem. tonal balance had remained constant while the noise floor, openness and dynamic life had improved. when the plugs were changed to the NCF Furutech on the EA power cords for the amps there was an initial perception of tonal shift to a degree of brightness (my dart amps are such a clear window into what is being given to them). after an hour of playing it was better but still not in balance. so overnight I placed the 2 power cords on my Audiokharma Cable Cooker. in the morning they were better, but still not all the way there. so then I adjusted my crossover on the bass towers of my Evolution Acoustics MM7's just a couple of hz, from approximately 37hz to 35hz and that did give me the FR balance I liked......while still enjoying the improvement in other areas from the change in the plugs. I was good to go.

now fast forward to a month later; by this time further break-in had occurred on those NCF Furutech plugs on those power cords and now I was sensing a small degree of excess thickness. the mid bass and mid range was not quite as transparent and clear as I like. my opinion is that the eventual complete break-in of the NCF plugs on the amp power cords had made my previous small adjustment 'wrong'. so I changed the crossover from 35hz back to 37hz and the balance I like was restored.

my 'thickness' comment was only relating my NCF experience to the knife edge aspect to the effect of things, and that as tweaks break in one has to be open to cause and effect and how the break in might play out in system tuning. I did not intend to connect the NCF and the Entreq products......our systems are not static, and lots of gear is not plug and play.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Detlof/Mike
I was reflecting on your experience with the Everests and the helpful advice from Mike based on his experience of changing to the NCF plugs.
As you know I am a long term fan of the Entreq range. In particular the way they reduce and eliminate the noise floor and other unwanted distortions without losing the essential musicality of the sound. I have heard a number of highly regarded high end systems, albeit at Munich, and so many of them while being very transparent seemed to me lack the ability to communicate with me and to sound rather sterile. The Entreq filtering, to my ears, has the ability to get rid of the harmful sounds and to preserve those we appreciate.
It may be that as you progress up the Entreq ladder it progressively removes such unwanted noise including that which is not immediately audible, but once gone enhances the sound quality of what you do hear in the way that high quality bass reproduction provides a frame in which the mids and highs can be better heard.
The challenge involved in getting that superior sound reminds me of the challenge facing the pharmaceutical and medical professions. Many effective drugs not only knockout the intended target but also the body's good bacteria etc which can result in people succumbing to other infections and killing them. Hence the obvious attraction of newer treatments which trigger or enhance the body's own natural defences.
It seems to me that audio designers face a very similar challenge and identifying the precise cause and effects of design changes, particularly those you cannot objectively measure, adds to the challenge. We have to rely on our ears and your summing up rang very true to me and in accord with my own experience of the Entreq benefits.

there is a danger to get 'eyes rolling' as we delve into degrees of the mystical power of music to affect us. but it is absolutely true that musical involvement and the pleasure we derive can be affected by how great it sounds. and I know that my body's reaction (all senses, not just hearing) to the music tells me a lot. there are thresholds of experience that transport me to a bit of a zen state and I want to live in that spot. system tuning with various products seems to get us closer to this mystical thing.

Entreq so far to me does seem to get my system just that little bit more out of the way of the music so more musical truth can immerge. it does not add anything, or slow anything down, or shift tonality. it allows for more nuance, texture, and liveliness to come thru.

 

[justubes]

Thank you Mike for the elaboration on the ncf plugs as there is also a good interest in upgrading the ncf products in the quest for an improvement to my system.

Will add 1 at a time as and hope the change or improvement will suit my system and listening preferences.

Also, your outlets were upgraded from non ncf to ncf version all at one go.

Do you consider the impact of ncf comparable or to a largerdegree than adding the E's?