Evolution Acoustics MMMicroOne loudspeakers

[Steve Williams]

The only other comment/suggestion I will make here is that the TOS may need to be modified to discourage or disallow manufacturers from ever speculating, criticizing or otherwise discussing or mentioning competing products and companies, like has been done in part in this thread. Manufacturers should strictly stick to their own products; otherwise, they lose credibility quickly. This suggestion is in line with the 'level playing field' discussed in this thread and others.

Well it is an EA thread Peter

 

[Bruce B]

Well it is an EA thread Peter

And Jonathan was discussing Magico...

 

[ack]

And Jonathan was discussing Magico...

Precisely

 

[Steve Williams]

And Jonathan was discussing Magico...

precisely my point as well.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The only other comment/suggestion I will make here is that the TOS may need to be modified to discourage or disallow manufacturers from ever speculating, criticizing or otherwise discussing or mentioning competing products and companies, like has been done in part in this thread. Manufacturers should strictly stick to their own products; otherwise, they lose credibility quickly. This suggestion is in line with the 'level playing field' discussed in this thread and others.

i certainly agree with your basic premise.

OTOH a manufacturer needs to be able to respond to either incorrect info about their product or other industry people who are making claims.

jtinn did not bring Magico into this thread.

Magico was brought in by;

mep (5/4)

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...e-loudspeakers&p=190591&viewfull=1#post190591

lapaix (5/4)

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...e-loudspeakers&p=190676&viewfull=1#post190676

Champ04 (5/15)

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...e-loudspeakers&p=192749&viewfull=1#post192749

which then sparked discussion about various design aspects of the Evolution and Magico and caused jtinn to respond to clarify and defend here on 5/17.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...e-loudspeakers&p=193141&viewfull=1#post193141

whether you like jtinn's remarks or not, or the one's that follow......it's not like he brought the subjects up that he commented on.

and if phillipk is who Steve thinks he is, jtinn's actions pale in comparison.

 

[ack]

i certainly agree with your basic premise.

OTOH a manufacturer needs to be able to respond to either incorrect info about their product or other industry people who are making claims.

jtinn did not bring Magico into this thread.

Magico was brought in by;

mep (5/4)

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...e-loudspeakers&p=190591&viewfull=1#post190591

lapaix (5/4)

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...e-loudspeakers&p=190676&viewfull=1#post190676

Champ04 (5/15)

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...e-loudspeakers&p=192749&viewfull=1#post192749

which then sparked discussion about various design aspects of the Evolution and Magico and caused jtinn to respond to clarify and defend here on 5/17.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...e-loudspeakers&p=193141&viewfull=1#post193141

whether you like jtinn's remarks or not, or the one's that follow......it's not like he brought the subjects up that he commented on.

and if phillipk is who Steve thinks he is, jtinn's actions pale in comparison.

I don't understand your points. Yes of course third parties will discuss ANY product related to the subject, that's what we consumers do - my suggestion is that manufacturers themselves, on the other hand, be required to stick to discussing the merits of their own products; I think it's quite simple. They can discuss partners they may choose, but they must absolutely not refer, speculate or otherwise directly refer to competition. Language like "we think our products are better built and designed than what we would consider the competition, because we do this, this and that" is acceptable language; just about anything else, is not.

And obviously we are dealing with phillipK appropriately as well.

 

[Steve Williams]

Point of Clarification

PhillipK has been in touch with me and has provided full explanation of his identity. Yes he uses proxy and Tor servers but this indeed is a result of his job. However, he is not the certain individual I felt he was and for that I offer up full apology and retraction.


Having said that I did encourage PhillipK to seek out a proper email address that does not involve proxy or tor servers

 

[mep]

Point of Clarification

PhillipK has been in touch with me and has provided full explanation of his identity. Yes he uses proxy and Tor servers but this indeed is a result of his job. However, he is not the certain individual I felt he was and for that I offer up full apology and retraction.




Having said that I did encourage PhillipK to seek out a proper email address that does not involve proxy or tor servers

Interesting. NGOs must pay better than I thought.

 

[stereo]

You don't have to be in a NGO to use proxy and TOR. Most of my friends in China use TOR for obvious reasons... We also use proxy in my company for confidentiality reason.

Reflecting back on the series of direct attack you could read on this thread on Alon Wolf, I don't think that the process was managed in a professional way: even if this user was suspicious, it is a stretch to assume that we are talking about Alon Wolf and to attack him directly like the forum moderator did. PhilippK could have been an audiophile fan of Magico, a Magico dealer, a friend of Alon Wolf, or just a normal user who needs to use proxy for professional reasons. If I would be Alon Wolf, I would have already sued Steve for defamation... we shouldn't make direct, personal attacks without proofs.
Now back to the Micro (which I acknowledge is a good speaker for its price)

 

[DaveyF]

You don't have to be in a NGO to use proxy and TOR. Most of my friends in China use TOR for obvious reasons... We also use proxy in my company for confidentiality reason.

Reflecting back on the series of direct attack you could read on this thread on Alon Wolf, I don't think that the process was managed in a professional way: even if this user was suspicious, it is a stretch to assume that we are talking about Alon Wolf and to attack him directly like the forum moderator did. PhilippK could have been an audiophile fan of Magico, a Magico dealer, a friend of Alon Wolf, or just a normal user who needs to use proxy for professional reasons. If I would be Alon Wolf, I would have already sued Steve for defamation... we shouldn't make direct, personal attacks without proofs.
Now back to the Micro (which I acknowledge is a good speaker for its price)

Stereo, do you see a direct personal attack on Mr Wolf in any of Steve's posts? I don't!....defamation, please look up the meaning of the word.

 

[stereo]

Stereo, do you see a direct personal attack on Mr Wolf in any of Steve's posts? I don't!....defamation, please look up the meaning of the word.

Quoting Steve:
"There are many here who wonder if you are not PhillipK but rather someone else whose initials are AW."
"If truly PhillipK is someone from Magico and I believe he is"
"I would bet that if a certain AW joined as "AW" and made his points he would garner a whole lot more respect to take the time to post as himself than under an alias"
"Finally, it is no secret that Mr. AW has pulled the same trick on other fora such as Audiogon,TAS etc so it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing is going on here"

Defamation: a false accusation of an offense or a malicious misrepresentation of someone's words or actions.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Quoting Steve:
"There are many here who wonder if you are not PhillipK but rather someone else whose initials are AW."
"If truly PhillipK is someone from Magico and I believe he is"
"I would bet that if a certain AW joined as "AW" and made his points he would garner a whole lot more respect to take the time to post as himself than under an alias"
"Finally, it is no secret that Mr. AW has pulled the same trick on other fora such as Audiogon,TAS etc so it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing is going on here"

Defamation: a false accusation of an offense or a malicious misrepresentation of someone's words or actions.

Frivolous lawsuit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frivolous_litigation

 

[Steve Williams]

You don't have to be in a NGO to use proxy and TOR. Most of my friends in China use TOR for obvious reasons... We also use proxy in my company for confidentiality reason.

Reflecting back on the series of direct attack you could read on this thread on Alon Wolf, I don't think that the process was managed in a professional way: even if this user was suspicious, it is a stretch to assume that we are talking about Alon Wolf and to attack him directly like the forum moderator did. PhilippK could have been an audiophile fan of Magico, a Magico dealer, a friend of Alon Wolf, or just a normal user who needs to use proxy for professional reasons. If I would be Alon Wolf, I would have already sued Steve for defamation... we shouldn't make direct, personal attacks without proofs.
Now back to the Micro (which I acknowledge is a good speaker for its price)

I fail to see where the personal attack was either or even where there was defamation, Also feel free to search the web and you will find instances where he has done that before on other web sites.

Finally the use of a proxy server is in direct violation of our TOS

 

[edorr]

I fail to see where the personal attack was either or even where there was defamation, Also feel free to search the web and you will find instances where he has done that before on other web sites.

Finally the use of a proxy server is in direct violation of our TOS

Clearly, you questioned AW's integrity (without factual basis) on the forum, which could be the basis for a defamation suite. However I believe this would only have merit if AW could proof that the defamation caused him financial damage, which would be a tall order. No need to lawyer up just yet, but as a word of caution I would be more carefull next time. This IS the USA after all.

The proxy server issue is of course completely besides the point, because that has nothing to do with AW.

 

[Steve Williams]

I agree

I must say that trying to preserve the integrity of our forum and abide by the TOS proves all too often to be a difficult task.

 

[stereo]

Clearly, you questioned AW's integrity (without factual basis) on the forum, which could be the basis for a defamation suite. However I believe this would only have merit if AW could proof that the defamation caused him financial damage, which would be a tall order. No need to lawyer up just yet, but as a word of caution I would be more carefull next time. This IS the USA after all.

The proxy server issue is of course completely besides the point, because that has nothing to do with AW.

yes, and look at post 253: "I am particularly interested in your findings as I am about to put an order in for the Q3, and this is going to have to wait for now." Now we need to make sure that Ack orders his Q3 or it is a first sign of financial damage.... ;-)

 

[stereo]

I fail to see where the personal attack was either or even where there was defamation, Also feel free to search the web and you will find instances where he has done that before on other web sites.

Finally the use of a proxy server is in direct violation of our TOS

- if you fail to see the personal attacks, read again a small sample on post 291.
- I searched the web, and I didn't find any proof of what you stated: so you are again questioning AW integrity without factual basis. Or do you say that spreading enough rumors makes something becoming real?
- Use of a proxy server has nothing to do with AW: your concern on PhilippK identity was fully appropriate, your posts stating it was AW were not.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Stereo you seem to have quit a bit of interest in magico as well .
Another question : where is your ordered Q 7, not yet arrived ??
And why do you own a Q 1 and a S 1 , both are relatively small speakers , are you a dealer /importer ??

 

[mauidan]

Stereo you seem to have quit a bit of interest in magico as well .
Another question : where is your ordered Q 7, not yet arrived ??
And why do you own a Q 1 and a S 1 , both are relatively small speakers , are you a dealer /importer ??

Suggest you read Stereo's posts in the Magico forum.

 

[ack]

yes, and look at post 253: "I am particularly interested in your findings as I am about to put an order in for the Q3, and this is going to have to wait for now." Now we need to make sure that Ack orders his Q3 or it is a first sign of financial damage.... ;-)

I would postulate that Steve is not guilty of anything, because as Steve said there is clear precedence on the web of prior alleged actions (which I am personally aware of and have discussed with my local dealer ad nauseam in the past), which made Steve HIGHLY suspect, given also the cloaked nature of phillipK's posts. Yes we need to be more careful, and yes I will strongly suggest again that: a) proxies and anonymity networks be in violation of the TOS; b) manufacturers be forbidden from discussing/speculating et al competing products, so that there will no room for suspicion of anything or anyone; in addition, that also protects them from being held accountable by competing manufacturers should they say something astray, so to me it's a win-win situation. That is a level playing field.

As for the Q3, yes it's back on.