Experience with Torus All-in-One 12KVA Power Conditioner "Chemistry" w/ MSB Components

[battles]

Hi all,

Was interested in hearing forum members experience utilizing this Torus Power Conditioner, and in particular with MSB components. For the last three years, it has served as the electrical/power source for my dedicated listening system. From it I run three dedicated / isolated 20 amp circuits that power the system described in my signature below. I had blindly assumed that it was providing plenty of power and headroom for my gear vs. impeding its performance. That was until a couple weeks ago when a local MSB dealer paid me a visit and immediately suggested that I grab a cheap 30 foot extension cord from my garage, plug all my components into it (specifically, an MSB S202 amp and Shunyata Denali (that conditions power for my sources)) and then plug said cheap 16 gauge extension cord into a random general purpose power receptacle in my listening room. Low and behold, the compression and congestion in my system disappeared and became much more extended, dynamic and effortless. With that said, before reconfiguring my power configuration, which would likely entail bypassing the Torus All-In-One panel and placing the dedicated circuits in a standard sub panel, I'd value input from dealers/members who have experience with the Torus All-in-One panels...were they a net positive or negative to the sound, and in my particular case, could other issues exist, such as a poor ground that could be contributing to the impairment of sound quality? Obviously, I'm hopeful that I can continue to keep the All-in-One in my "power path" but not at the expensive of sound quality.

Thanks in advance!

 

[mtemur]

Torus or any other filter has to be placed at close proximity of the audio setup. So close that component power cords have to be connected directly to the outlets of Torus/filter. It is a must. Dedicated line has to be before Torus not after. That’s the only way to minimize negative effects like compression. The big part of your problem is the result of this situation. I never noticed any negative effects of Torus but I didn’t try it at home. Eventually a little bit of compression may still exist cause it’s inevitable with transformer based filter/conditioners.

The best is to run dedicated solid core cables from meter to the receptacles back of the setup. No multi stranded wire can be good enough. Again solid core is a must.

 

[battles]

Torus or any other filter has to be placed at close proximity of the audio setup. So close that component power cords have to be connected directly to the outlets of Torus/filter. It is a must. Dedicated line has to be before Torus not after. That’s the only way to minimize negative effects like compression. The big part of your problem is the result of this situation. I never noticed any negative effects of Torus but I didn’t try it at home. Eventually a little bit of compression may still exist cause it’s inevitable with transformer based filter/conditioners.

The best is to run dedicated solid core cables from meter to the receptacles back of the setup. No multi stranded wire can be good enough. Again solid core is a must.

Thank you, mtemur. As you likely inferred, the Torus AIO is not a standard in rack power conditioner, it is a massive breaker panel (like an Equitech) that has 24 isolated breakers and a large 12KVA transformer. I’ve included its product description below. The three dedicated circuits that I run from the Torus AIO to my listening room are 8 gauge solid core 120 feet in length romex that pigtail into short cryro’d romex that terminate into top of the line furutech outlets into which my 200 watt S202 amp and Denali Shunyata connect. i cannot shorten the length of the romex runs. Think the best that I could potentially do is place a sub panel right before the Torus AIO that would feed directly from the main 600 amp electrical panel that is connected to the meter. If you wouldn’t mind, please take a look at my current electrical power configuration in the sketch attached. Will illustrate what I’m currently working with.

thanks again!

———————-

TORUS AIO PRODUCT DESCRIPTION​

The Torus Power All-in-One (AIO) provides a comprehensive approach to whole system power conditioning.
The stand-alone electrical panel has two sections. The top section is pre-wired with 24 industrial grade 20A bolt-in breakers, which are fed by robust 1 ¼” x ¼” all copper buss bars. Advanced surge suppression is provided. Clean, isolated power is supplied to the breakers by a Toroidal Isolation transformer mounted in the lower section of the panel.
The AIO uses a separately derived equipment ground (from the isolated ground) making troubleshooting ground loops much easier, and providing an extremely quiet noise floor. Models are rated up to 100Amps, with 240 V or 208 V inputs provided.
The AIO was developed for the professional recording studio industry by Arthur Kelm of Ground One in California, and is now widely used in discriminating consumer and professional applications.

SPECIFICATIONS:​

• Chassis panel: Board
• Input voltage: 240 V
• Output voltage: 120 V or 240 V
• Output current: 104A at 120 V or 52A at 240 V
• • Power: 12500 VA
• Frequency: 50/60 Hz
• Output breakers 24 X 20A
• Weight: 282 lb
• Dimensions (W x H x D): 20 x 8 x 74 in

 

[mtemur]

If you wouldn’t mind, please take a look at my current electrical power configuration in the sketch attached. Will illustrate what I’m currently working with.

I’m not an electrical engineer but I still recommend running a dedicated line (solid core) directly from main breaker board (preferably from meter) to Shunyata power conditioner and skipping Torus. IMHO it will be the best option for uncompressed dynamics. Additionally, skipping Shunyata together with Torus and connecting dedicated line to a group of receptacles might enable better sound. You need to try this IOT decide whether or not using Shunyata but Torus must be skipped in this current situation. There can not be a dedicated line or long runs of cable after a filter or transformer like Torus. This is how it should be IOT limit it’s impact on compression.

 

[Kingrex]

I have sold a lot of Torus and never had the reaults you talk about. You describe an installation that is not ideal.
First, the load side circuits of a Torus should never be longer than 40 feet. Best to be 10 to 25. The person selling it to you should know this. This goes for any isolation transformer.

Don't plug some other conditioner into a Torus.

I have never heard of 8 awg Romex style cable that is solid core. They are all stranded in the USA.

#8 stranded is sort of bright and fast. Not a lot of body.

Using a pigtail to size down #8 makes a mess of the circuit. Overlapping fields. Get rid of the pigtail if you can. I bet your #8 is stranded. Get rid of the pigtail and splay the wire to wrap the screw under 1 yoke

Your electrician probably drilled a single hole and pulled all 3 branch wires through it. Thats a big mistake. 1 wire, 1 hole spaced 4 to 6 inch between holed, 1 wire 1 duplex direct. No pigtails. .

I would never have sold or set up your electrical that way. You are way better off using one of those #8 and using a RM40 to power just the audio gear. Put your home theatre/TV on some other circuit or conditioner. Or get a different Torus for that.
With a RM40, modify the cord end to accept a twist lock 30A receptacle that can accept a #8 wire.

Sorry you were mislead by a salesman. A 12kva core is way oversized. And I am not such a fan of that unit. Its designed for a recording studio where its in a electrical room next to the comtrol room and all the branches were used. It had aluminum in it too. I hate aluminum.

As a wall mount, I would have put a WM45 on the wall just outside the room feeding your audio, fed with with a NM-B #8 or #6 and ran 3 x #10 solid NM-B to 3 duplex.
If you could not get the WM on the wall, I would have used the Rack Mount RM40.

I don't know who sold you the unit. I have no idea your options. I would try to get them to take it back. Its the wrong device for the job.

 

[Kingrex]

FWIW a shunyata might sound great on MSB front end gear. I have found amps run better on an appropriate Torus. You don't want all your gear on one circuit. You want 3. One for amps, One for digital, one for analog. Minimum. I would have put 1 unfiltered at the rack also for the Shunyata.

 

[Kingrex]

@battles
What have you done. Anything?

 

[wil]

FWIW a shunyata might sound great on MSB front end gear. I have found amps run better on an appropriate Torus. You don't want all your gear on one circuit. You want 3. One for amps, One for digital, one for analog. Minimum. I would have put 1 unfiltered at the rack also for the Shunyata.

Rex, just for clarification, When you say you don’t want all your gear on one circuit, you’re not saying you would have a separate Torus for digital and amps are you?