finally updated my system pictures; new racks, tone arm, cartridge, change in turntables, added digital pieces
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
I read your response to Mikes response. I was thinking something similar to what Mike said. I was and was not surprised getting rid of room treatments helped. Elliot said something along the lines in another thread that homeowners can make mistakes with room treatments. I can see this. I have a suspician dealers and some room professionals over treat to, instead of focusing on optimum placement of speakers, seating and equipment. Almost like DSP guys trying to tamp it down with processing. Tamp it down with traps. That is why I supported Robert Harley and the way he did his room. I would rather a blank canvass than permanent fixtures. I did say I would open ceiling space if needed to .ake my room work. Thats was a bit knee jerk on my part. I will try surface stuff. Who knows how the room may change over time.
you mean this love tap?
that's what friends are for. and i responded in kind.
love to. set up a time with @jazdoc and i'll be there. speaker set-up in someone else's room is not one of my super powers. but i'll do what i can. it will be fun. i will bring my work clothes and expect to work up a sweat. i know jazdoc is a whimp.
i've moved heavy turntables with him.
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there is also the predisposition of sonic perspectives. dogma is dogma.
many forces can be at work. real and imagined. there are matters of taste and opinions.
@Mike Lavigne
A bit disappointing the transport is that bad without the clock. I still wonder about a Jays Audio Lab. But I don't think that would bridge the gap.
I at time consider $$$ into my server to up its performance. The solution I am told is a new JCat card with an external clock with LPS attached to the card.
Maybe what I wonder is how your TEAC would sound with a $2000 clock???? It seems the clock matters. But how far do you have to go. At least for a guy like me.
A bit disappointing the transport is that bad without the clock. I still wonder about a Jays Audio Lab. But I don't think that would bridge the gap.
I at time consider $$$ into my server to up its performance. The solution I am told is a new JCat card with an external clock with LPS attached to the card.
Maybe what I wonder is how your TEAC would sound with a $2000 clock???? It seems the clock matters. But how far do you have to go. At least for a guy like me.
i had watched Steve Guttenberg's video review and expected more from the TEAC transport naked (i did add a $1500 S/PDIF cable). but i suppose performance expectations vary from user to user. i guess i should not be surprised. but it was unlistenable to me in stock form.
my guess is that you can throw all the transports (beyond the cheapest level) into a heap, and choose one. any one. then the one with the best interface will win, until you bring in a heavy hitting clock and clock cable then that will trounce the one with the best interface.
the mechanicals are besides the point. it's all about the clock. the interface might provide a good clock, but not in the league with the best stand alone clocks.
beyond that is the dac, and if you have a Wadax dac with forward looking error correction then winner-winner chicken dinner.
i do expect that any decent clock and clock cable will take you from a digital sounding transport, to another level. how the actual transition will go and at what price point i don't know. but i would not fall in love with any transport in and of itself. it's the clock.
but as i sit here and listen to this transport now as i go along, it's quite clear what is going on.
my viewpoint here is quite narrow so i'm just a data point right now, not the whole picture. it could be a more nuanced situation than it appears from where i sit. i expected that maybe my clock might be a factor, but i had no idea how much.
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yes, and live music can be used as a reference against which to judge and to combat those dark forces.
I have always suspected Teac, Esoteric and DCS to dumb down their internal clocks, so you can really hear a difference when the expensive clock gets added. Other manufacturers manage to make great sounding machines without external clocks, just another expensive box to sell.
i've never gone to the trouble to compare 'uber' clocks myself, but i have seen shootouts about them. but from what i have read, separate chassis, power supplies, and exotic approaches do result in performance advances, which do equate to better sound. i know that some pro audio facilities spend big bucks on clocks as it pays dividends.I have always suspected Teac, Esoteric and DCS to dumb down their internal clocks, so you can really hear a difference when the expensive clock gets added. Other manufacturers manage to make great sounding machines without external clocks, just another expensive box to sell.
on board clocks i'm sure run the gamut of performance. are some dumbed down? i suppose it's possible.
what my Esoteric G1X clock did for my Esoteric T1 turntable was subtle but musically significant, and the transformation of this modest TEAC transport is hard to argue with.
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In studios they have a lot of different machines syncing up to a common clock, it makes sense. Companies like Gryphon, Burmester, MBL and Kalista manage to make reference CD players without external clocks.
you mean this love tap?
that's what friends are for. and i responded in kind.
love to. set up a time with @jazdoc and i'll be there. speaker set-up in someone else's room is not one of my super powers. but i'll do what i can. it will be fun. i will bring my work clothes and expect to work up a sweat. i know jazdoc is a whimp.
I prefer 'weakling'...
How many hours on the new Transport before you went to the uber expensive clock?.... Unless a minimum of 100 hours on the Teac, I suspect part of what you were experiencing ( unpleasant, brittle, etc.) may be because of that... I have not used your particular transport, however have experience with several others over the years, and they did require some time to settle, etc.
fair enough. your point is legit.
i played it for 45 minutes and it did improve a little, then i got anxious about what i was hearing. in my post i mention my experience is narrow, only a data point, and there may be nuance i'm missing. my feeling was that the degree of change from the Clock, which was immediate like turning on a switch, far exceeded any break-in factor. there is no analog output stage or signal path involved. just a data path to the S/PDIF rca output.
i will say that since i installed the clock 50 cable, things have improved a bit in ease. so who knows? i'd never use this transport without a clock, but others might, and that would be good to know.
easy enough to remove the clock 50 BNC cable from time to time and see if there was improvement in it's degree of the 'naked' transport digital signature as time builds with more use of it. i'm sure that will happen accidently a few times as for now i only have one single Clock 50 cable i'll have to switch back and forth between the TEAC transport and the Esoteric T1 turntable. which i play multiple times a week.
i hate to plug and unplug cables generally, as it can never help a plug, but at least a BNC connector is more robust than alternatives.
So Mike, you're saying the same clock that controls the tachometer for your Esoteric turntable, it's the same one that processes the signal with your TEAC transport. It took me a minute to put together what you were saying That's crazy a TT motor comtroller benefit enough from a external clock that one would spend $17k to get that last bit of good. I remember Joe Pitman years back telling me about a power cable upgrade to a TT motor improves the sound from the TT. It sounded crazy to most people back then. Myself included. I didn't gwt it. Now its not just a power cord. It's an external clock. Crazy times.
Indeed, the TEAC model may even be sufficient to bring about a substantial improvement: https://teac.jp/int/product/cg-10m-a/feature
got the Esoteric T1 turntable March 23', the clock arrived for it April 23'. there was much discussion of it at that time on that thread and you were there a little too.
so with this transport, i was lucky i had already invested in the exact perfect tool to optimize it. it had been in the back of my mind that somehow i would discover a side benefit of my $27k (not $17k) clock investment. maybe other streamers already with a nice dac have a clock around they could insert with this transport? hard to make a case not to do that.
turntable motors and power supplies are critical things, especially as performance improves and noise floors of systems drop, these type things become the limitations of performance, so small incremental steps are where we see the best separate from the very good. not everyone equally believes power cords should (can) be improved. YMMV.
Joe's power cord thinking came mostly from Gary Koh of Genesis Loudspeakers, who made most of the power cords (Absolute Fidelity power interface cables) in my system. Gary's perspective is that ideal power cords for motors, amplifiers, and sources are different and he tunes them differently. i hear what Gary hears. and Joe agreed.
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I don't think I realized the clock for a TT motor was the same thing as a clock for a server/DAC interface.
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