Finite Elemente

boonyarat

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Jan 7, 2011
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Bangkok , THAILAND
Finite Elemente , German made excellent Vibration Eliminator Audio Rack system and Resonance eliminator devices :) IMG_4346.jpeg IMG_4348.jpeg DSC_5604.jpeg DSC_5593.jpeg IMG_4361.jpeg IMG_4362.jpeg IMG_4368.jpeg DSC_5632.jpeg IMG_4371.jpeg DSC_5623.jpeg
 

boonyarat

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2011
211
196
428
Bangkok , THAILAND
More...... DSC_5629.jpeg IMG_4375.jpeg IMG_4376.jpeg IMG_4377.jpeg IMG_4378.jpeg IMG_4379.jpeg
 
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dcathro

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Sep 16, 2016
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Melbourne, Australia
Beautiful looking racks. Why is only one shelf carbon fibre, and what difference does it make over the wooden shelf?
 

boonyarat

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Jan 7, 2011
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428
Bangkok , THAILAND
So... back in business? Rumours of a few years ago told that the brand have closed the doors.
They re-open since 2018 and did some re-designed to improve performance even better now :)
 

boonyarat

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Jan 7, 2011
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Bangkok , THAILAND
I believe the carbon fibre shelf is an optional upgrade.
The Carbon fibre platform and Shelf are option that customer can pay for Extra performance :)
 

boonyarat

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Jan 7, 2011
211
196
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Bangkok , THAILAND
Beautiful looking racks. Why is only one shelf carbon fibre, and what difference does it make over the wooden shelf?
The Carbon fibre platform and Shelf are option that customer can pay for Extra performance:)
 

Blackmorec

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Feb 1, 2019
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I’ve owned a Finite Elemente Pagoda Master Reference on Cerabase footers for around 18 years and in that time it has not required a single adjustment. I check the rack occasionally using a stethoscope, which allows me to pick up even the slightest maladjustment, but in all that time the rack has maintained its integrity perfectly.

Again over the years I’ve tried several footers between components and the rack and each time its been a downgrade in terms of tonal balance and colouration.

Also, the science behind the rack is really solid, with each shelf optimised with frequency specific resonators which clearly demonstrate a measurable and highly significant reduction in vibration

This is a truly ‘form follows function’ design
 
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andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor
Jan 23, 2011
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Amsterdam holland
Good design .
I use the cerabase classic footers under my speakers .
They can take a heavy load while being easy to move around by one person, unlike spikes.
Rollers under speakers degrade the sound .
I think their pagode racks look great
 
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Blackmorec

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Feb 1, 2019
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I bought last year the new Master Reference MK II and i am very happy
I bet you are! The Mk1 offers absolutely outstanding performance and the MkII is a substantial further refinement using concepts known to work exceedingly well. Its one of the very few upgrades that I would make without even bothering to audition first thanks to the absolutely solid engineering underpinning the improvements.
 

boonyarat

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Jan 7, 2011
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Bangkok , THAILAND
I bought last year the new Master Reference MK II and i am very happy
Very nice looking and great performance !!!
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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i have a 4 shelf Finite Element Pagode Master Reference Mk1 rack on the way to me for my -4- Ampex MR-70 preamps.

this is a used rack so i might need some hand holding from current owners to get it optimized. my culture for 15 years since i sold my Grand Prix Monaco racks has been to have a solid rack and use decoupling shelves or footers. now i have a decoupling rack....and my trusty tweak drawer will be no use. from what i read the Finite Element likes it's gear naked. maybe the chassis tube cage covers might need some mass damping is all. i have some lead filled Walker pucks i'll use for that.
 
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Blackmorec

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Feb 1, 2019
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Hi Mike,
Buy yourself a stethoscope. Its super useful in finding any spike mis-adjustment.

When it comes to components on the shelves. Take a very thin piece of paper like a till receipt, place it under one foot, then gently ‘lift’ the unit just enough to transfer any gap to the diagonally opposite foot while trying to slide the paper out. If there is any maladjustment the paper will slide out without resistance. If that’s the case, simply shim the back foot with paper until lifting (tilting) the unit has no effect.. In a four footed component, you need to test both front feet then make any adjustment on the diagonally opposite back foot. Having all 4 feet with the same contract pressure ensures optimium transfer of vibration from component to shelf, where it can be converted to work and heat. You’ll be surprised how much difference this makes sonically.

Regarding the rack itself…..I’ve owned 2 racks for close on 20 years and neither has required adjustment in spite of 2 international shipping events
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,367
4,410
Hi Mike,
Buy yourself a stethoscope. Its super useful in finding any spike mis-adjustment.
i will. thanks.
When it comes to components on the shelves. Take a very thin piece of paper like a till receipt, place it under one foot, then gently ‘lift’ the unit just enough to transfer any gap to the diagonally opposite foot while trying to slide the paper out. If there is any maladjustment the paper will slide out without resistance. If that’s the case, simply shim the back foot with paper until lifting (tilting) the unit has no effect.. In a four footed component, you need to test both front feet then make any adjustment on the diagonally opposite back foot. Having all 4 feet with the same contract pressure ensures optimium transfer of vibration from component to shelf, where it can be converted to work and heat. You’ll be surprised how much difference this makes sonically.

Regarding the rack itself…..I’ve owned 2 racks for close on 20 years and neither has required adjustment in spite of 2 international shipping events
perfect; that's exactly the type of insight i was hoping for. thank you. i figured there would be a learning curve to it.

a question; these 4 MR-70 preamps are meant to be rack mounted so they have no footers built in, and no solid metal chassis case work. and their shape is more narrow than most gear, 17" x 9" with 1" rack mounting wings on the faceplate on each side. their bottom sides are not super solid, the same 'cage' material that is on the top sides. my plan was to only use 3 footers to eliminate the precise height issue, possibly even spikes. any thoughts about it. i am also thinking of using 3 Daiza panzerholtz tiny round hollow footers to give me a solid connection to the Pagode shelf top for energy transfer coupling.

i plan on adding some mass loading on top of each chassis with the cage material (prown to resonate) to calm any resonance; Walker lead filled pucks.

each chassis is fairly heavy for the size; around 20 lbs, so there is some mass.

the 'captured' custom power cables are heavy for each one; and i will be plugging and un-plugging XLR cables as i switch from 1/4" to 1/2" tape. 2 of the pre's are for 1/4" tape playback and 2 for 1/2". will i be upsetting the 'set-up' when i mess with it? is it that sensitive?

the XLR's do plug and unplug without lots of pressure needed to get them seated, unlike RCA's.

thoughts for between the rack surface and the chassis bottom? 3 footers verses 4? spikes? something decoupling?
 
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Blackmorec

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2019
747
1,271
213
i will. thanks.

perfect; that's exactly the type of insight i was hoping for. thank you. i figured there would be a learning curve to it.

a question; these 4 MR-70 preamps are meant to be rack mounted so they have no footers built in, and no solid metal chassis case work. and their shape is more narrow than most gear, 17" x 9" with 1" rack mounting wings on the faceplate on each side. their bottom sides are not super solid, the same 'cage' material that is on the top sides. my plan was to only use 3 footers to eliminate the precise height issue, possibly even spikes. any thoughts about it. i am also thinking of using 3 Daiza panzerholtz tiny round hollow footers to give me a solid connection to the Pagode shelf top for energy transfer coupling.

i plan on adding some mass loading on top of each chassis with the cage material as the chassis to calm any resonance; Walker lead filled pucks.

each chassis is fairly heavy for the size; around 20 lbs, so there is some mass.

the 'captured' custom power cables are heavy for each one; and i will be plugging and un-plugging XLR cables as i switch from 1/4" to 1/2" tape. 2 of the pre's are for 1/4" tape playback and 2 for 1/2". will i be upsetting the 'set-up' when i mess with it? is it that sensitive?

the XLR's do plug and unplug without lots of pressure needed to get them seated, unlike RCA's.

thoughts for between the rack surface and the chassis bottom? 3 footers verses 4? spikes? something decoupling?
Hi Mike, Great questions. But first a word of caution……when you put the stethoscope into your ears, the other end has now become ‘nitro glycerine ’ so when you put it down on the shelf, do it VERY GENTLY. You will hear the tiniest lack of contact between the shelf spikes and the frame. You need to place the stethoscope head gently onto the shelf then try to rock the shield across the diagonals. One of the 2 back spikes my need adjusting…this is where you use ‘cartridge’ like adjustments….you want NO movement.

With that done you can start placing your components but before you go ahead, bear in mind that the rack is just the middle part of a bigger process, so you need to get the interface right. The rack works in a certain way, so the way you interface to it should be as effective and efficient as possible. I would recommend that you get hold of Herr Fernandes at Finite Elemente. For sure he knows how to make the interface the best possible. I imagine their Ceraball range could probably fit the bill nicely. I used them under some BAT tube gear and they were great. You could also take a look ata set of Cerabases for the rack. If we’re talking preamps in a music chain, you’ll hear clear impacts and benefits from any vibration reduction. When the rack is working optimally, I think you’ll be very impressed with what it delivers.

In terms of how many footers, I‘m guessing that the optimal number will be 3. 4 may ‘ultimately’ sound better, but only if you can 100% guarantee good contact between component and rack and this sounds like that would be impossible so 3, for the stability and security benefits it endows.
The other possibility worth trying is a more ‘organic‘ approach with some Cardas golden ratio maple (I think) wood block footers. They look lovely, don‘t take up much height, don’t need much case area.

The final thing you mention are cable changes. The impact here is that you want the rack shelf to component ’interface’ to have a fairly high frictional resistance to movement so its doesn’t slide around when handled. You intend to weight them so there’s plenty of mass, so I would think something with reasonable surface area and high CoF as an interface, which again sounds like its in Ceraball territory.
 
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Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,367
4,410
Hi Mike, Great questions. But first a word of caution……when you put the stethoscope into your ears, the other end has now become ‘nitro glycerine ’ so when you put it down on the shelf, do it VERY GENTLY. You will hear the tiniest lack of contact between the shelf spikes and the frame. You need to place the stethoscope head gently onto the shelf then try to rock the shield across the diagonals. One of the 2 back spikes my need adjusting…this is where you use ‘cartridge’ like adjustments….you want NO movement.

With that done you can start placing your components but before you go ahead, bear in mind that the rack is just the middle part of a bigger process, so you need to get the interface right. The rack works in a certain way, so the way you interface to it should be as effective and efficient as possible. I would recommend that you get hold of Herr Fernandes at Finite Elemente. For sure he knows how to make the interface the best possible. I imagine their Ceraball range could probably fit the bill nicely. I used them under some BAT tube gear and they were great. You could also take a look ata set of Cerabases for the rack. If we’re talking preamps in a music chain, you’ll hear clear impacts and benefits from any vibration reduction. When the rack is working optimally, I think you’ll be very impressed with what it delivers.

In terms of how many footers, I‘m guessing that the optimal number will be 3. 4 may ‘ultimately’ sound better, but only if you can 100% guarantee good contact between component and rack and this sounds like that would be impossible so 3, for the stability and security benefits it endows.
The other possibility worth trying is a more ‘organic‘ approach with some Cardas golden ratio maple (I think) wood block footers. They look lovely, don‘t take up much height, don’t need much case area.

The final thing you mention are cable changes. The impact here is that you want the rack shelf to component ’interface’ to have a fairly high frictional resistance to movement so its doesn’t slide around when handled. You intend to weight them so there’s plenty of mass, so I would think something with reasonable surface area and high CoF as an interface, which again sounds like its in Ceraball territory.
thank you. that gives me some context and a road map to help me. once the rack arrives and i get them assembled i will get back into all this information.
 
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