FM Acoustics amps

[Mike Lavigne]

It's quite common not to want to expose personal information of any kind. Human Resources, potential employers et al can build a picture of you what you may not want.

you seriously think he could be legit? he was the most picture-happy poster ever; and now he's reluctant to share personal pictures? he has a blog with pictures up the ying yang....many he inferred he took.

and what about a 'loaner' set of $130,000 amps that he trashes? come on. no one seriously thinks that could be legit.

i can see sympathy for a guy who does bring us lots of juicey information. i can understand some being upset with me for outing him. everyone is entiltled to their opinions.

but i cannot see actually buying what he is selling.



and to those who think i should have let him be; what if people here actually made buying decisions based on some of his feedback, and then discovered later he was a fake and some knew about it and did not raise the alarm. i think the truth has value, but maybe nice pictures and inside info on uber gear is more important.

 

[FrantzM]

I believe you're mistaken Christian. I believe their gear is top notch and as good as it is made out to be.

That a debate that would remain open .. A friend of mine (Haitian by the way but living in the US) whom I can identify off-line if needs be, had an early model (might have been a 411 with an FMA preamp) and we did hear it and it was very good but hardly a world beater IMHO. Good, FMA, likely is, has to be considering the adulation, a concession if you will.. We should at least agree that the lack of scrutiny is at least cause for at least pause and the cost (FMA is not alone in this ) to me obscene and ludicrous. The mode of acquisition is also quite peculiar ... The specs are very but nothing unusual IME, No Halcro-like distortion figures or Krell -Reference 0.1 ohm stability here or Boulder outwordly power under Class A , a technical achievement in itself... Then again that doesn't mean much in term of sonic worth still these very aspects (specs) were raised here about the specs of Spectral (among the best SS gear if you ask me at ANY PRICE) as compared to those of FMA.
Color me skeptical as I am of all these stratosphere priced gear. Nor am I automatically bestowing any crown to any gear based on its price and I am perfect at ease with the concept of modest or even low price gear competing with their more celebrated and gravity-defying priced counterparts. There are countless example of these.

 

[Steve Williams]

Christian and your point also Frantz is well taken that there are countless products in the market today priced at a fraction of the higher priced gear and they perform every bit as well or better than these top priced components.

 

[mep]

Personally I too am hoping that Wizard will continue to post here. I also agree to some extent in the manner in which he was treated. We all know that gear is a matter of preference and watching members react to other members comments which are less than positive or suggests one is better than another always elicits the same reactions.

As far as measurements and cost I can say that my amp cost more than the Dart 458 and measurements are far from pretty. Both my amp and my system have taken a beating for it but when all is said and done, for my ears it is the best amp I have ever heard. Do I know about the measurements. Of course. What all of us are doing is nothing more than picking your flavor and how well it sounds in ones system. I'm a tube guy and for me the epitome of tube amps is in my system. Those that don't like it, so be it. Not everyone will like the 458 or the FMA or my Lamm ML 3. I understand clearly about the concern for false reporting but do we have to be vindicated by convincing the world that what we have is the Best. Sit back and enjoy the music.

Steve-No one doubts that you own the gear you say you do and that is the difference here. You post pictures. You have people over to your house to hear your system. Nothing is a mystery or secret. If other people don't like your amps, that is their prerogative-but no one doubts that you actually own those Lamm amps.

I think if you want to come on this forum and make big, bold statements about very expensive Brand X sounding better than very expensive Brand Y and you “know” because you own one brand and have had the other in your system, people just might expect to see a few pictures to know someone doesn’t have a hidden agenda and/or is just fantasizing. I totally don’t understand the response of claiming great offense at the request and then running out of town. If you want to be the mild-mannered reporter from the Daily Planet and stay anonymous, don’t tell everyone you are Superman and be surprised when they ask to see you fly.

 

[AudioExplorations]

Mike - your not getting it. Sharing pictures of other people's luxuries is different than sharing those of your own.

And do you think the dealer loaning him amps can somehow predict the future knowing he would dislike and write about it online, and therefore refuse the loan?

The point is that there is no reason to think he is NOT legit.

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve-No one doubts that you own the gear you say you do and that is the difference here. You post pictures. You have people over to your house to hear your system. Nothing is a mystery or secret. If other people don't like your amps, that is their prerogative-but no one doubts that you actually own those Lamm amps.

I think if you want to come on this forum and make big, bold statements about very expensive Brand X sounding better than very expensive Brand Y and you “know” because you own one brand and have had the other in your system, people just might expect to see a few pictures to know someone doesn’t have a hidden agenda and/or is just fantasizing. I totally don’t understand the response of claiming great offense at the request and then running out of town. If you want to be the mild-mannered reporter from the Daily Planet and stay anonymous, don’t tell everyone you are Superman and be surprised when they ask to see you fly.

I can't argue with your point on a personal level however I can tell you that I have at least 5-6 audiophile friends with systems priced in the stratosphere that never post pictures or comments about their systems. I can think of at least 2 who are members here.

 

[Steve Williams]

The question should be asked however is whether one has to be an owner of the gear to comment about it or is hearing it in a system(s) sufficient. To make comments be they positive or negative in the absence of having heard it is clearly wrong and I'm sure all of us agree. Mep just stated he's never heard FMA but has an opinion based on its build qualty. The argument makes sense but would an audition be better. Just a thought.

 

[rockitman]

As far as sharing pictures of one's own system, I don't see what the issue is ? If a guy buys a new Porsche, ect, he usually likes to show off a few pics. I'm on Mike's side. Wizard should of coughed up some pics of his system, if in fact the gear he said he has even exists in his home.

 

[flez007]

I understand both camps, one asking a valid position on past claims and the other exercising his prerogative to leave and take his content out. For me WBF is a valid and important source that contributes on my purchase decisions as well as a learning site for things to come (even some not planned) - we shall remain open, tolerant and active to keep it that way.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike - your not getting it. Sharing pictures of other people's luxuries is different than sharing those of your own.

ok, but the fact that he has a blog and posts that he owns or posesses this gear, post all these pictures of related gear, and now won't give any proof is beyond credible. i don't need pictures, one serial number would suffice.

And do you think the dealer loaning him amps can somehow predict the future knowing he would dislike and write about it online, and therefore refuse the loan?

have you ever got a $130,000 amp loaned to you? i have. there is a relationship that is required and a respect for the provider that is required. it's not a casual occurance and comes with responsiblities. just the shipping to and from is major for a pair of 160 pound works of art. imagine who might rate to get shown such favor.

certainly not this guy the way he acted.

The point is that there is no reason to think he is NOT legit.

i respect that we all have a different prism to see life thru.

 

[mep]

The question should be asked however is whether one has to be an owner of the gear to comment about it or is hearing it in a system(s) sufficient. To make comments be they positive or negative in the absence of having heard it is clearly wrong and I'm sure all of us agree. Mep just stated he's never heard FMA but has an opinion based on its build qualty. The argument makes sense but would an audition be better. Just a thought.

Steve-I don’t think you have to own the gear to have an opinion of how it sounds provided you have actually heard it and that I think is the crux of the matter here. Claims were made as to having certain gear in one’s system and making comparisons against other gear and reaching conclusions.

I have an opinion of FMA gear based on what I have seen with regards to how it’s made and the quality of the parts and workmanship vice what they charge. I have never offered an opinion on how I think it sounds because I simply have no idea and never pretended to know how it sounds.

 

[A.wayne]

Still, I wonder why it (FM) doesn't have more market penetration in the US ? I have never seen a review of any of their equipment in US review mags such as stereophile and TAS. They appear to make no marketing effort in one of the biggest hi fi markets in the world...The US.

The US used to be , it hasn't been so in almost 20 yrs , the money was always in asia , the US market started shrinking about then . There are many reasons why FMA are not reviewed, reviews are very political and require "negotiations" , you are not going to just get a review because you want one. Many companies, some still around today, had many "friends" helping them sell avg products. Check out how many have come and gone that weren't bad products..?

I believe you're mistaken Christian. I believe their gear is top notch and as good as it is made out to be.

+10

Perhaps you are right Steve...I have not heard the stuff and you have. To me, that doesn't excuse their stamped steel metal construction for amp, component cases.....so I fail to see the value based on their extreme pricing model. My amps cost about 1/2 the price, are dual chassis (spearate power and gain stage boxes) monoblocks built to impeccable standards. I would put they up against any amp....but that's just me.

Are you buying sound or chassis .....? some may describe yours as a "Pretty box" Justified..? what does it matter , it matters not to those buying , i mean you don't get more basic than tube amplifiers and they sell for big money ..

That a debate that would remain open .. A friend of mine (Haitian by the way but living in the US)

Sounds familiar, what speakers ...?

 

[Steve Williams]

One can certainly not discount your notion re build quality. A perfect example was given last week in a thread re Ayre vs Dart and pictures of the build quality of the Ayre IMO was far superior based on the pictures I saw. Does it sound better however.

 

[FrantzM]

The question should be asked however is whether one has to be an owner of the gear to comment about it or is hearing it in a system(s) sufficient. To make comments be they positive or negative in the absence of having heard it is clearly wrong and I'm sure all of us agree. Mep just stated he's never heard FMA but has an opinion based on its build qualty. The argument makes sense but would an audition be better. Just a thought.

I can answer to the question by a simple and if you want resounding : No! .. How many times someone has gone to a show and post his/her observations? I can comment on anything I have heard, be my comments positive or negative. I must however substantiate my position and at least try to be fair. When I post negative comment about a gear I should be ready to back up my point of views. If you attack another product you must stand ready for the counter-fire. That's part of the game if not the fun.

 

[A.wayne]

Wizard was not asked to produce pictures, he was called a fraudster and a BS artist then ask to prove he was not, by providing pictures. He would have had to have nuts the size of raisins to produce pictures ....


Just saying .....

 

[rockitman]

Are you buying sound or chassis .....? some may describe yours as a "Pretty box" Justified..? what does it matter , it matters not to those buying , i mean you don't get more basic than tube amplifiers and they sell for ..?

I buy on sound and I wouldn't even entertain fm based on their substandard build quality and what, heats sinks inside the chassis ? Clearly, FM are not class A biased amps. You should get that for that kind of money, as class A sounds best.

 

[mep]

One can certainly not discount your notion re build quality. A perfect example was given last week in a thread re Ayre vs Dart and pictures of the build quality of the Ayre IMO was far superior based on the pictures I saw. Does it sound better however.

Once you reach a certain outrageous price point where you are selling an amplifier for more than the average price of house in the U.S., you have a right to expect top-notch build quality, parts, and design. You are paying for both performance and looks at the stratospheric end of high-end. But here is the real kicker: it really doesn’t matter what I or anyone else thinks about how shoddy something is made as long as people are buying the products and keeping the manufacturer’s doors open to sell more gear tomorrow, or next month, or next year, or whenever they can get around to having enough good Karma among their workers that they can get some product out the door.

 

[Steve Williams]

I agree Frantz. The counter fire however can effect the person making the comment as well as the person who owns the gear. As someone here has in their moniker, "in high end audio you can't even fight an opinion with the facts"

 

[djanggo]

personally i too am hoping that wizard will continue to post here. I also agree to some extent in the manner in which he was treated. We all know that gear is a matter of preference and watching members react to other members comments which are less than positive or suggests one is better than another always elicits the same reactions.

As far as measurements and cost i can say that my amp cost more than the dart 458 and measurements are far from pretty. Both my amp and my system have taken a beating for it but when all is said and done, for my ears it is the best amp i have ever heard. Do i know about the measurements. Of course. What all of us are doing is nothing more than picking your flavor and how well it sounds in ones system. I'm a tube guy and for me the epitome of tube amps is in my system. Those that don't like it, so be it. Not everyone will like the 458 or the fma or my lamm ml 3. I understand clearly about the concern for false reporting but do we have to be vindicated by convincing the world that what we have is the best. Sit back and enjoy the music.

+1

 

[microstrip]

(...) and what about a 'loaner' set of $130,000 amps that he trashes? come on. no one seriously thinks that could be legit.

IMHO it is question of fairness and humility. If you take some equipment on loan and it does not achieve your expectations in your system, you can only conclude that is was not a proper match, did not suit your preference or you did not have the competence to make the system work properly.

Posters are untitled to give their opinions and findings, giving as much as detail about the system and listening conditions as possible. But trashing components based in specific and unique cases, protected by nondisclosure of the whole system in name of privacy, is unfair to manufacturers, and in this case to the dealer. Specially in a passionate situation, as most high-end debates, where a simple exchange of opinions often degenerates in contests.

Just a factual detail. I had the pleasure of listening the system referred in the link posted by Roysen in a private audition. The system was demoed in a show, in a very large empty room in an old hotel with very deficient acoustics. I doubt any one could make any serious conclusions about bass quality in these conditions. As it was referred in the article, bass seemed impaired by "room modes". Also, the NHB458 that was auditioned was still a prototype, as the audition happened in March 2010.

And yes, I also loved the beautiful pictures... I will miss them.