For what it's Worth-Tesla
- Thread starter Steve Williams
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There is a video by a professor from MIT that goes through the entire chain in great detail so I won't go into any of that here ... he is likely far more informed on the specifics on environmental impact of the different types of vehicles than any of us as he's conducted a ton of research on this subject and the videos are not hard to find. EV's are no where near as green as one might think over their lifetime when considering manufacturing of the cars AND batteries...not to mentioned allowing ourselves to once again become energy dependent on other countries (possibly hostile to us). One thing I will say is that if you look up the impact of passenger cars on the environment vs commercial trucks, aviation, and power generation that passenger cars only are responsible for around 7-8% of the CO2 output today in the US. That data is on US Govt websites. With that being the case why would the gov't start with the smallest offender and not really do much of anything to address the biggest offender of all ... power generation. We could have solved that decades ago but we also don't like Nuclear power. Fusion is promising but there is no guarantee we'll get there in the next 50 years. Seems this is more about Politics than saving the environment which even if 100% of cars are EV that only solved 7-8% for the issue. I say this is about Politics because if we really BELIEVED our planet only had 10 more years before it was past the point of no return (folks do say that don't they?) that we would stop what we are doing and replace all of the power plants with Nuclear energy and figure out how to deal with the waste (a huge problem also but would buy us time). We aren't doing that so we either don't really believe the climate is in mortal danger OR we are sticking our heads in the sand and hoping that somehow EV's and renewable energy will be good enough in time to save our planet.
Sorry for the rant and none of us are likely going to convince each other so now I'm wondering why I even tried ... LOL. I guess because I do want the climate to improve .. I just want us to do something that will make an huge impact and EV's alone just won't.
George
You are right George. You will not convince me. You do know I can charge my car using solar, but I guess you will tell me that that isn’t green either. Maybe when we invent programmable matter like on Star Trek Discovery. By the way, the appeal to authority doesn ‘t work for me. As a trial lawyer I have run not too many questionable experts. Money does talk after all.
It is good to have choice. FWIW I’ve been there and done that with Porsches for 15 years. As for replacing the Tesla battery I have no worry as they are warrantied for 150000 miles. I’ve never owned a car that long so no fears at this end. My one desire as a retiree was purely economic. I am all solar and since buying the two Teslas I’ve not spent a penny on charging them and still had enough solar generated that I am still energy neutral in satisfying the energy requirements of my home For me that is a good thing. It was a liberating experience cutting up all my gas credit cards. Between my wife and we are saving about $500 per month on gas. So yes I agree. It’s good to have choices and finally there is no doubt in my mind that the Tesla speedster would snuff your Porsche. But as I’ve said it’s not the speed thing that got me going but rather economies of scale.
You totally can and SHOULD charge your car using solar if you're trying to be good for the environment. The vast majority of Tesla drivers don't though so again just moving the carbon emissions up stream for those that don't use solar at home. I looked at Solar at home just to save on electricity but 3 different companies could never offer me an actual payback so I'm holding for now on solar for the house. Just not cost effective for many and for those in northern latitudes it tends to be even less cost effective. So you are correct money does talk ...
George
Lol the grid is not green nor will
It be in our lifetime you must be kidding how it’s getting greener
We have a Fairly good alt in energy production nuclear. but it seems this not good now why no idea. So what is left that we actually use ??
Well
Wind farms wow. Solar another wow waist
So what is green as a concept so far green = our money yes ours as gov has none is just given to wealthy corps to do just what.
now im sure a fast comback will be the world is ending ok let’s say I’m wrong still non of any thing we do matters to fix this.we are told by some we are 2 in pollutions
Wrong #3 or 4 snd less than half of next one above us. So lets at least admit it’s a total cash grab
now as for EV cars I love them and not for energy purely for its speed and reliability of a new generation of vehicles and tech.
It be in our lifetime you must be kidding how it’s getting greener
We have a Fairly good alt in energy production nuclear. but it seems this not good now why no idea. So what is left that we actually use ??
Well
Wind farms wow. Solar another wow waist
So what is green as a concept so far green = our money yes ours as gov has none is just given to wealthy corps to do just what.
now im sure a fast comback will be the world is ending ok let’s say I’m wrong still non of any thing we do matters to fix this.we are told by some we are 2 in pollutions
Wrong #3 or 4 snd less than half of next one above us. So lets at least admit it’s a total cash grab
now as for EV cars I love them and not for energy purely for its speed and reliability of a new generation of vehicles and tech.
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I think these are fairly accurate reflections of energy production and source of power.
2 images are of the US and 1 is of the world.
We have what appears an almost insurmountable need for electricity. Green energy is no where near capable of handling the load if your thinking wind and solar are the solution. Hydro and Nuclear are the only real sources of clean energy. And Hydro is near tapped out. You already have most rivers dammed and into production. That leave Nuclear. But fear limits its ability to be sited near its use (not my backyard). Wind is even taking a kick to the teeth as farms are monumental structures that impact everything around them. They recently slated open water off the East coast of the US for wind farms and in doing so, shut hundreds of thousands of acres of area off to recreation and commercial fishing.
2 images are of the US and 1 is of the world.
We have what appears an almost insurmountable need for electricity. Green energy is no where near capable of handling the load if your thinking wind and solar are the solution. Hydro and Nuclear are the only real sources of clean energy. And Hydro is near tapped out. You already have most rivers dammed and into production. That leave Nuclear. But fear limits its ability to be sited near its use (not my backyard). Wind is even taking a kick to the teeth as farms are monumental structures that impact everything around them. They recently slated open water off the East coast of the US for wind farms and in doing so, shut hundreds of thousands of acres of area off to recreation and commercial fishing.
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Hey .. even if the Tesla beats my Porsche (which it won't) I'd still take the Porsche all day long ... to me it is so much sexier both inside and out!
We all like what we like and if you love the look and feel of the Tesla then you have the right car for you just like the Porsche is the right car for me!That said I've tried multiple times to get a quote for solar panels on the house that even breaks even with my current electric demand cost wise and cannot. I might just be in an area where the installation of the Solar is all sky high like everything else around here but when I'm going to pay more over 25 years for the solar panels than my power bill over that same time I'll just stay put. And yes my power bill could go up but the solar panels will become less efficient as they age as well so not sure how that will play out in the 20-25 year part of the panels life expectancy. For me solar has zero payback or even break even unfortunately ... Glad its worked out for you though! I'll keep checking every few years!
George
What you think may not be possible today may be very possible in a year or two. Things move quickly. Especially when money can be made. I recall the Japanese TV makers saying in the mid 90’s that digital TVs HDTV was 20 years away. 6 months later two versions of digital TV were announced by 2 different US companies that were later merged into what we have today and was deployed in Nov. 1998. Analog HDTV died a quick death.
I'm sure glad people didn't have this attitude with things like cell phone, GPS, Internet, Computers, Airplanes, etc.
But everyone has their opinion/beliefs. I tend to lean towards what's possible.
Unfortunately I don't think the same will apply here as there are much larger problems to try and solve for clean energy forever .. believe me I wish it did because I do wish our generation could leave the world a cleaner place than how we found it. That said .. I think we can have an impact but we have to look at the right things and I believe that currently we are barking up all the wrong trees! Start with the biggest opportunities for improvement not the smallest!
George
It takes 10 years to design and bring to commission a nuclear power plant. It takes 3 year for a coal or natural gas plant. It takes about the same for permits etc. for wind. Its not a joking issue. No one is creating a new clean fuel and getting it into any form of scale in the next 10 year minimum. Its more like 20 to 30 years. One of the largest issues is government and permitting. Even a wind farm has to go through 5 or 6 major regulatory agency.
This is why we need to be developing new forms of energy now. One can't wait another 20 or 30 years before we decide to do something. Everything takes time. 3-10 years for a new power plant isn't bad in my mind. Heck it takes up to a year or more to build a house at times.
Imagine if the government got behind having solar installed on homes and businesses. And building out the grid to accommodate it? I could develop tech to pull free clean energy out of the quantum field and there would be some against it.
I think far to many people are unaware the scale of humanity. There are so many people. Billions. At a minimum you Joe, are part of the top 4% of wealth earners in the country. Your not recognizing the working class. They don't have $30K to drop on their roof. And I personally know 3 or 4 people that fell pray to some company pitching, let us put solar on your roof for free. Not a one would do it again. Especially when it comes time to sell your home and the single largest asset you have is now negatively impacted by a 3rd party owning your roof.
And solar is peak load shedding. Its not baseload power. Solar is a waste of time. Concentrated solar in the desert where you heat salt to 900 degree is good power. But it too has issues. Cost being one. And a need for fresh water another.
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