For what it's Worth-Tesla
- Thread starter Steve Williams
- Start date
I read naysayers like Mike L. all the time. Ever hear of Gordon Johnson? Reality is rearing it’s ugly head alright, but not for Tesla. look at Norway, already over 80% of all new car sales are EVs. Look at China. I fully expect that by 2030, 75% of all new car sales will be EVs, even in the US. It is inevitable. Tesla will continue to grow along with the market. Wait until you start seeing Cybertrucks appearing all over the place.everyone I have given a test ride in my M3 has bought one or a MY. An audio buddy liked the ride but loved his Porsche and Audi then he rented a M3 for a weekend trip to CT. He was so taken by it and tg3 charging experience that he bought one.should take delivery any day now.
This conversation got me thinking about flywheel cars, which were an exciting topic a while back, seems like a long while back. I just googled it and the idea has not died. They could replace the battery in hybrids, some are saying.
Even if the ultimate cheap, durable, small, lightweight, low environmental impact, battery were invented, cars still pose huge problems for society. They're carbon footprint is just one piece of the puzzle. Finding ways to reduce the need to transport ourselves and junk around so much in order to feel fulfilled I think is where the important solutions are going to be found.
When I was a bicycle tour guide I talked with a guy who worked on fuel cells at GM. He said the problem is they don't work on gasoline directly. They need hydrogen, so you have to have somewhat of a bulky apparatus to convert the gasoline to something that will work in the fuel cell. He said you'd practically have to tow a trailer with the distilling unit. If you're talking hydrogen power, Toyota is still taking that seriously, although they're now moving away from the fuel cell concept and going with an internal combustion engine that directly burns hydrogen. People like the noise and vibration of an ICE, and with hydrogen there's very little pollution coming out the tail pipe. There still are some pollutants formed from nitrogen and oxygen I think, but mostly it's just water.The professor from Back to the Future promised us cold fusion a long time ago. What happened to fuel cells?
Even if the ultimate cheap, durable, small, lightweight, low environmental impact, battery were invented, cars still pose huge problems for society. They're carbon footprint is just one piece of the puzzle. Finding ways to reduce the need to transport ourselves and junk around so much in order to feel fulfilled I think is where the important solutions are going to be found.
No thank you.
Driving, individual adventure and the romance of the open road -- especially in fast sports cars and convertibles that guzzle gas and scare the birds -- is an American tradition which I hope endures.
i'm not a naysayer on electric cars. just that the math does not work to support a high percentage of electric cars in the USA as far as the market or the infrastructure.
until i retired 2 months ago my job was to convert our dealership into an EV ready company for Honda's new Prologue coming next Feb. part of that was looking into how people will access charging and just how all of it will ramp up. and even in an EV hotbed like wealthy Seattle, the math does not work for 30% or 40% EV in the next 10 years. let alone the crazy targets being spouted by all the left leaning politicians.
what Norway does (or what Orange County does) with EV's has zero relevance to the real world. and i know Auto Manufacturers have to talk the talk, but they are all hedging their bets i can tell you.
dream away. i'll be retired, listening to music behind my gate, not needing to commute or concerned about my access to gas or electricity for transportation. eating my popcorn.
you say 75% of all new cars sold will be EV by 2030. half of that will be wishful thinking. OTOH if congress throws enough money at it, anything is possible. it would have to be completely government funded. like the pandemic perpetually as far as increasing government. it will be a political question, not a marketplace one. your prediction depends on where you stand on ginormous government.
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I understand that completely however Ron I can promise you that if you in your MBZ and a Tesla we’re going to a drag strip you will be left in the dust of the TeslaNo thank you.
Driving, individual adventure and the romance of the open road -- especially in fast sports cars and convertibles that guzzle gas and scare the birds -- is an American tradition which I hope endures.
I enjoy it, I must admit. I like the sound of the engine, and I like manually shifting the gears. Makes me feel like the car actually needs me for something. The car I enjoyed the most was my sister's Karmann Ghia, which I "looked after" for a few years. Not the fastest thing, although it did have a hot rodded engine. Something about it put a smile on my face, and my passenger's faces. Maybe it was that sound like hundreds of rubber bands propelling us down the road. I sure hated driving it in cold, wet weather though. The windshield took forever to un-fog. I had to drive sometimes with my head out the window since even wiping it down with a towel didn't work. It was magically un-foggable until the motor was hot.No thank you.
Driving, individual adventure and the romance of the open road -- especially in fast sports cars and convertibles that guzzle gas and scare the birds -- is an American tradition which I hope endures.
that's silly. no one asked Congress for $7500 tax credit for buying an i-phone. and creating a cell network is actually cheaper than maintaining all the land line infrastructure. the i-phone tech fit into reality.
Gee Mike, I bet the same was said by the horse and buggy people back in the day. The automobile was developed. How many gas stations were there? How long did it take until that infrastructure was built To support that new tech,? Roads too? Time will tell but my money is on the success of electric vehicle. The largest market in the world is China, then India followed by the EU. those Markets may have a say in what happens.
What I never understood is the justification of EV's based on any carbon emission reduction science since the carbon footprint caused by mining lithium and other material for the batteries that power those cars, is an embarrassing argument that cannot be justified. Frankly, I also no longer car about drag strips since I was pulled over for going 57 mph in a 40 mph zone on a country road in Maine last week.
It's like a smoker switching to chewing tobacco. For sure better for the lungs but maybe not an ideal long-term solution.
No thank you.
Driving, individual adventure and the romance of the open road -- especially in fast sports cars and convertibles that guzzle gas and scare the birds -- is an American tradition which I hope endures.
Sure, I get that, but a vast majority of traffic is commuting to work and getting groceries.
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Electric cars are the future for sure, as energy tech improves or we finally get Mr Fusion devices on our cars, they'll just get better and the use of electricity to charge them will be less impactful. Right now it's not even close to perfect and I do think politicians are jumping the gun to some degree. The one thing missing is better batteries, significantly higher energy density and charge rates would make a massive difference.
Also, a friend of mine has a Tesla M3P, I've driven it, it's fun... but overall my V8 Camaro is a massively superior sports car and destroys the Tesla on a racetrack or autocross. The C8 Corvette, which has the same engine, also does 0-60 faster. Yes, EVs are fast but these days every sports car has more than adequate power. It's about how the car makes you feel, which is the reason older sports car prices are now going through the roof. Some do love EV performance and it does have it's advantages for sure, no problem with that, but I wouldn't say performance is better with EVs vs ICE at all, they have downsides like weight and limited energy storage, driven on track range is shockingly low, likely ~10x lower than regular driving. My Camaro has about 1/6th the range on track vs highway, with EVs it's going to be a lot worse because there's no significant brake regen.
As far as tailpipe emissions, modern cars are super clean as well, sometimes less than ambient pollution in city air.
The issue is most people have a lot of bias and choose underlying assumptions that fit their worldview wrt EVs. IMO, the truth is not so clear and often depends on exactly which EV, how it's used and where it's used. I think plug-in hybrids with short EV-only ranges make the most sense right now, that's my $.02.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
And you're at a dragstrip what percentage of the time? Yes, my AMG is not as fast as "most" Teslas, but my does it sound good!!
Mine sounded great also Bruce but I’ll bet money the Tesla Will be out of the gate and halfway home before you even get started. As I said I’m not interested in the speed of the car but if you’re holding onto your car for the sake of how it sounds then have at it. For me it was economies of scaleAnd you're at a dragstrip what percentage of the time? Yes, my AMG is not as fast as "most" Teslas, but my does it sound good!!
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