For you horn guys: What kind of compression driver are you using for high frequencies? Why that choice (if you know...)

[Audiophile Bill]

Funny, I have been cooking a lot these days and was on my family chat running some recipes by my expert aunts. They said stop asking questions and just follow instructions. I said part of the fun is just chatting about it.

I think your expert aunts make a valid point in some ways though. Imho there are far too many armchair experts on all manner of topics the world over without some of these folks ever having got hands on experience with the thing they claim to be expert about. I think there is a lot to be said to just shutting up and getting off one’s arse and walking the walk.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I forgot to add - especially in our hobby, there are so many pseudo intellectual debates that are just garbage lol.

 

[bonzo75]

I forgot to add - especially in our hobby, there are so many pseudo intellectual debates that are just garbage lol.

It's the process of creating the garbage

 

[Audiophile Bill]

It's the process of creating the garbage

Nobody is creating anything though - the only thing created is endless ever circular forum debates of qualitative opinions.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I think your expert aunts make a valid point in some ways though. Imho there are far too many armchair experts on all manner of topics the world over without some of these folks ever having got hands on experience with the thing they claim to be expert about. I think there is a lot to be said to just shutting up and getting off one’s arse and walking the walk.

We are in a hobby that essentially celebrates sitting around and appreciating other people’s work lol.

 

[ddk]

We are in a hobby that essentially celebrates sitting around and appreciating other people’s work lol.

What do you think museums and art galleries are about

I forgot to add - especially in our hobby, there are so many pseudo intellectual debates that are just garbage lol.

and if you really want pseudo intellectualism try listening to the woke free wine & snack crowds who come to gallery openings !

david

 

[the sound of Tao]

Wouldn't it also have been possible to upgrade your PAP Trio Horn to Quintet Horn instead of buying completely new additionally?

I'm VERY curious about your sub-solution.
Please open a dedicated thread for those adventures and let us "accompany" you along the way

Yes I could have just bought in four additional woofers and baffles, frames and swapped out a few resistors. But I really wanted to be able to use one horn as a reference while developing the other and I can more easily compare wide range horns in both as well.

I’m also thinking I may just end up with two different horn setups, one for big scale music, big orchestra, big band and more energised rock bands in a larger listening space and then one for more intimately scaled music when the greater coherence of having less drivers and may come to the fore.

... or possibly as Milan once beautifully pointed out I might have slight issue with letting go of speakers

 

[Swen]

The lowest possible THD2 and THD3, the strongest motor, extremly short x-max and a low cut off and a ultra linear response. These are the basics to get a perfect compression driver.

 

[jcmusic]

I been using the Fostex 90A's with my modded Khorns with BMS 2" mid drivers with great success!!!

 

[Tom Danley]

I think this is not a BMS driver as it looks like nothing in their catalog. Also, on the PAP page for this speaker they don't actually state the crossover frequency. The 450hz seems to be with the full-range drivers (Tang Band and Voxativ).

The closest I have found is from Beyma:
https://www.beyma.com/en/products/c/compression-driver/1CD1114FE8/motor-cd-1114fe-8-oh/
https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Fich...s-data-sheet-compression-driver-CD-1114Fe.pdf

The back cover is nearly identical to yours but there are not push buttons and the Beyma is a ferrite magnet and yours looks to be Nd.

This one is even closer in design except it is a 1 inch exit, not 1.4 inch

https://www.beyma.com/en/products/c/compression-driver/1CD11ND8/motor-cd-11nd-8-oh/
https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Fich...ers-data-sheet-compression-driver-CD-11Nd.pdf

Maybe they got a custom driver from Beyma that is a mix of these two? I looked at a lot of other brands and no other are similar for the back cover to yours.

It also fits because PAP says the 1.4 inch compression driver uses polymer and both of these Beymas use PM4, which is a proprietary polymer of Beyma (probably a kind of polyamide).

The good news is that Beyma makes excellent drivers (really excellent).

I am still doubting that my Radian 475pbBe will actually beat my trusty old Beyma CP-350Ti

The CP755Ti is also ridiculously good (if in fact your driver is a Beyma, this would be an upgrade path as they should have similar exit angles, so matching with the horn would be easier).
https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Fich...ers-data-sheet-compression-driver-CP755Ti.pdf

However, it looks like the Re is different so it might impact the crossover somewhat.

Hi
I don't have one handy to take a picture of but it might be one of these that we use at work;

HF108 (8Ω) by FaitalPRO

FaitalPRO combined the latest R&D methods and technologies with the most advanced industrial automation techniques and all FaitalPRO drivers are made in Italy with the highest level of quality, consistency and durability.

faitalpro.com

These are good conventional 1 inch drivers fwiw
Tom Danley

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi
I don't have one handy to take a picture of but it might be one of these that we use at work;

HF108 (8Ω) by FaitalPRO

FaitalPRO combined the latest R&D methods and technologies with the most advanced industrial automation techniques and all FaitalPRO drivers are made in Italy with the highest level of quality, consistency and durability.

faitalpro.com

These are good conventional 1 inch drivers fwiw
Tom Danley

Tom - have you used the new Celestion Axi at work at all?

 

[DasguteOhr]

B&C de250 8ohms works perfect from 2khz to 18khz with 12db/ oct.
I use this driver as dipole in my open baffle
smooth organic tone great for me the best 1"driver inexpensive driver ever.

Home

B&C DE250-8 1" Polyimide Horn Driver 8 Ohm 2/3-BoltB&C's DE250 1" high frequency compression driver features smooth and accurate response. Its low mass polyimide diaphragm and optimized ceramic magnet assembly allow high sensitivity and low distortion up to 18 kHz. Popular with professional...

www.parts-express.com

 

[Robh3606]

I have been running a couple of large format 4" drivers out past 20K. They both have coated diaphragm's and both sound quite good. Better than I expected. It''s nice not having to add another driver and crossover point.

Rob

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I have been running a couple of large format 4" drivers out past 20K. They both have coated diaphragm's and both sound quite good. Better than I expected. It''s nice not having to add another driver and crossover point.

Rob

which ones, Rob?

 

[jeff1225]

Nobody is creating anything though - the only thing created is endless ever circular forum debates of qualitative opinions.

My other passion are fish tanks. Same.

 

[Robh3606]

which ones, Rob?

Hello Bill

I had been using JBL 476Mg and really liked it. Decided to try a large format driver in my other system. I decided to give one of the much loser cost JBL 2453SL a try in my other system. It has a coated Ti diaphragm and is the lowest cost 4" CD JBL makes. It uses a similar 4 slit phase plug to the 476 but is shorter in length and uses a smaller lower weight Nd magnet structure and has the diaphragm integrated into the back-cap.

I got a pleasant surprise it measured well on the waveguide and didn't have the extreme raggedness of the uncoated Ti 4" I have seen. It sounds very good as well so a win win on this one. Unfortunately it looks to be discontinued but the coated diaphragm's seem to still be readily available.
I changed over from a 3" driver for the 4" The 476's were the first 4" CD's I had owned and their effortless response, dynamics, clarity and extended high end really won me over.

Rob

 

[iansr]

Hello,
I always preferred a small compression driver mounted in a small horn to cover 5K-20KHz rather than a tweeter. I found that tweeters are so well integrated in a full horn system.
I had most Fostex tweeters, a Goto tweeter, some ribbons, some JBL tweeters, TAD 2001 and 4001 but ended up with small 1 inch compression drivers with non-metal diaphragm for the best integration.
It also allows making a coax system in some cases:

View attachment 69018

View attachment 69019

Can I ask, what is the 1“ CD that you referred to in this post?

 

[ajant]

I’m happy to get the right horn but if luck would have it and the iwata on the pap was suitable i was thinking I’d get an adaptor made up. But it could just be easier to get another set of horns that were best for the radians at any rate. I’m probably up for about $2.4k usd for a pair of the berillium radians which are probably a tad less unobtainium than your tads as desirable as it would be to go out of my short horn building career on a real compression driver high note

What?? $2.4K USD for these? https://www.usspeaker.com/radian 745neoBepb-1.htm

In any case, did you use them for your build? Are your speakers open baffles, or something like Pierre's here? See his post # 15,266. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/beyond-the-ariel.100392/page-764

He has those Radians in these the block milled version of these 4001 horns. https://www.athosaudio.com/2021/01/01/tad-th-4001/

Please describe what you love and may not love about these beryllium Radians.