For you horn guys: What kind of compression driver are you using for high frequencies? Why that choice (if you know...)

[the sound of Tao]

That is a pretty low. cutoff for those drivers.

I did read something online that 450hz was the crossover point but also thought it sounded low. Will definitely check in with Pureaudioproject and get confirmation. Also looking forward to hearing how your radians go. Partly that you are having a go with them and Kodomo has them and then some recent comments from Bill have got me thinking it might be a way to go forwards.

 

[bonzo75]

I did read something online that 450hz was the crossover point but also thought it sounded low. Will definitely check in with Pureaudioproject and get confirmation. Also looking forward to hearing how your radians go. Partly that you are having a go with them and Kodomo has them and then some recent comments from Bill have got me thinking it might be a way to go forwards.

Radians are my favorite current production drivers, because of the universum. But if you really want to test the drivers you will need matching horn and crossover. The uni sounds great but obviously he has worked on the crossover for years. Imo in diy the best thing to do is start with a driver/horn/crossover that someone else has built that you like, and then go from there so you have a base to come back to. Otherwise you can make any driver sound awful and you won't know why that's happening

 

[the sound of Tao]

For 450 Hz you will need the 4 inch

Ked I thought you were having a go at me after all that lengthy tonearm action talk lately lol... you guys and your longggg tonearms

I’m happy to get the right horn but if luck would have it and the iwata on the pap was suitable i was thinking I’d get an adaptor made up. But it could just be easier to get another set of horns that were best for the radians at any rate. I’m probably up for about $2.4k usd for a pair of the berillium radians which are probably a tad less unobtainium than your tads as desirable as it would be to go out of my short horn building career on a real compression driver high note

 

[bonzo75]

Radians can be bought new with Radian quite easily, but difficult in the used market to find 950/951.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Was going new... usd just as in $ usd. Paying in $ aud the numbers just look much scarier these days

 

[kodomo]

A compression driver works with the horn and the crossover. If you do not have an active and adjustable crossover and measuring equipment just strapping another cd is not a very good idea. It may cause you to be rating the cd wrongly. As an experiment it can be done, it wont harm the drivers or the system.

The second problem would be the throat transition as has been pointed out but I do not know if pap actually has a transition made accordingly so this may not be more problematic.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Also I just got in 21 metres of 14awg 7N upocc silver ribbon speaker cable... which leaves me plenty for hookup wire as well a pair of speaker cables for the project.

 

[the sound of Tao]

A compression driver works with the horn and the crossover. If you do not have an active and adjustable crossover and measuring equipment just strapping another cd is not a very good idea. It may cause you to be rating the cd wrongly. As an experiment it can be done, it wont harm the drivers or the system.

The second problem would be the throat transition as has been pointed out but I do not know if pap actually has a transition made accordingly so this may not be more problematic.

Thanks Kodomo, the more I think about it maybe just committing to getting the right horn in the first place to go with the radians is the ideal way to go. The time it takes to get things over here at the moment gives me plenty to time to consider and my current horns are making me happy so I’ll come at this carefully through time.

I’ll build the ob subwoofer project first and am looking to move forwards with upgrading the horn and CD after that. Really happy there are others here who have so much experience... really great.

 

[kodomo]

Thanks Kodomo, the more I think about it maybe just committing to getting the right horn in the first place to go with the radians is the ideal way to go. The time it takes to get things over here at the moment gives me plenty to time to consider and my current horns are making me happy so I’ll come at this carefully through time.

I’ll build the ob subwoofer project first and am looking to move forwards with upgrading the horn and CD after that. Really happy there are others here who have so much experience... really great.

If you like, I have a friend who can custom build the horn for your specific bandwidth and driver.

 

[the sound of Tao]

If you like, I have a friend who can custom build the horn for your specific bandwidth and driver.

That sounds interesting... will keep that in mind for sure. I need to start looking to see what people have been using with the 951 and the 950pb. Many thanks Kodomo.

 

[morricab]

I did read something online that 450hz was the crossover point but also thought it sounded low. Will definitely check in with Pureaudioproject and get confirmation. Also looking forward to hearing how your radians go. Partly that you are having a go with them and Kodomo has them and then some recent comments from Bill have got me thinking it might be a way to go forwards.

I have unfortunately been too busy to get them installed up to now but I will! My new 300b horn amps are sounding quite good though and the whole system is singing so nicely now it has been hard to think about the horn swap.

 

[morricab]

Ked I thought you were having a go at me after all that lengthy tonearm action talk lately lol... you guys and your longggg tonearms

I’m happy to get the right horn but if luck would have it and the iwata on the pap was suitable i was thinking I’d get an adaptor made up. But it could just be easier to get another set of horns that were best for the radians at any rate. I’m probably up for about $2.4k usd for a pair of the berillium radians which are probably a tad less unobtainium than your tads as desirable as it would be to go out of my short horn building career on a real compression driver high note

Radian has a 4 inch driver with 1.4 inch exit. No need for an adapter

 

[morricab]

Ked I thought you were having a go at me after all that lengthy tonearm action talk lately lol... you guys and your longggg tonearms

I’m happy to get the right horn but if luck would have it and the iwata on the pap was suitable i was thinking I’d get an adaptor made up. But it could just be easier to get another set of horns that were best for the radians at any rate. I’m probably up for about $2.4k usd for a pair of the berillium radians which are probably a tad less unobtainium than your tads as desirable as it would be to go out of my short horn building career on a real compression driver high note

I got mine for 450 pounds for the pair.

 

[the sound of Tao]

That’s great, I get what you mean though when it’s all sounding really good then going and upsetting it all is kind of counterintuitive... which radian model did you end up going with Brad?

 

[christoph]

That’s great, I get what you mean though when it’s all sounding really good then going and upsetting it all is kind of counterintuitive... which radian model did you end up going with Brad?

Maybe you can leave your already nicely modded PAPs as they are and as a reference and start a parallel project.

I think those Eminence bass chassis are not too expensive either so that you don't have too much outlay anyways and keep your working PAPs the way they are.

Just a thought...

 

[the sound of Tao]

It is shaping up that way Christoph, and having the paps as reference is also a good move. Originally I was thinking multi horn going from scratch but then the radian as upgrade slotting into the Paps seemed to go more with the flow of what I already had.

Realistically I was thinking of getting some replacement 50mm bamboo baffles made up also for the paps while I was getting them made for the OB subs. I could just as easily go full forwards with the new horn without much more outlay and just leave the Paps intact. That way I could have the new build up with the Harbeths and just use that SET amp instead. Then I have the Paps to play till I get the new horns right.

 

[morricab]

It is shaping up that way Christoph, and having the paps as reference is also a good move. Originally I was thinking multi horn going from scratch but then the radian as upgrade slotting into the Paps seemed to go more with the flow of what I already had.

Realistically I was thinking of getting some replacement 50mm bamboo baffles made up also for the paps while I was getting them made for the OB subs. I could just as easily go full forwards with the new horn without much more outlay and just leave the Paps intact. That way I could have the new build up with the Harbeths and just use that SET amp instead. Then I have the Paps to play till I get the new horns right.

I would get the Radians anyway and give them a try as is. If they aren't suitable as a drop-in replacement, then you still have them for your parallel project. Go stepwise.

 

[morricab]

View attachment 68723
Also I just got in 21 metres of 14awg 7N upocc silver ribbon speaker cable... which leaves me plenty for hookup wire as well a pair of speaker cables for the project.

Who makes this?

 

[the sound of Tao]

Who makes this?

It’s Neotech Brad which also supplies similar wire for Wireworld. I’m trying to match the balance I have with my existing signal cables. A mate is dressing the cable for me and I’m going with WBT silver connectors. Will try unshielded to start but may swap over to Tech flex conductive or Tech flex silver over copper braid. Loving the cable options for hookup as well.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Maybe you can leave your already nicely modded PAPs as they are and as a reference and start a parallel project.

I think those Eminence bass chassis are not too expensive either so that you don't have too much outlay anyways and keep your working PAPs the way they are.

Just a thought...

Just sitting here playing some music on the Paps... you are 100% right Christoph. Thank you. Will go parallel on the DIY horn. The paps are perfect for what they do already.
cheers
Graham