Great article on "Analogue Warmth"

[Blizzard]

Well, obviously such a recording system is pie in the sky- you said it yourself- its not available. Essentially therefore it does not exist. That makes your post a non-sequitur.

You said DSP makes the quality go down the drain. Well 99% of all digital music out there today has DSP applied in the mastering process. So that statement would mean 99% of all digital audio is crap. However, there's even far superior DSP available than the 99% uses, and that's DSD 256 straight from the mic feed, or Analog master tape, and then conversion to DxD to apply the DSP. This is currently the best way possible to do things in a studio circa 2015.

Circa 2016+ we will see the ability of multibit DSP than can be appled to the DSD stream. This will take things to levels never before experienced. This also happens to be the same technology I'll be using to apply the emulation profiles.

So I guess unless your amps are connected to the mic feeds, or everyone buys an R2R and obtains a vast selection of master tapes for their personal collection, we will have to settle with DSD 256 clones that are indistinguishable from the master tapes, or else go with even superior recordings that are direct from the mic feeds in DSD 256, and DSP appled in multibit DSD DSP by the studio in the mastering process. Either way DSP will be applied in all circumstances, whether it's poor quality or great quality.

 

[Blizzard]

What do you imagine "ultra high-end" would do for software plug-ins?

Tim

Well I can't imagine the audio gear manufacturers who make gear designed to add coloration are going to be up for selling $199 plugins like the prosound gear companies are doing with Universal Audio. why sell a $199 plugin when you can sell a $50000 amp? So likely the profiles will be named after the circuit topology describing them rather than specific products. Although some may open their minds up to it. We will see.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You said DSP makes the quality go down the drain. Well 99% of all digital music out there today has DSP applied in the mastering process. So that statement would mean 99% of all digital audio is crap. However, there's even far superior DSP available than the 99% uses, and that's DSD 256 straight from the mic feed, or Analog master tape, and then conversion to DxD to apply the DSP. This is currently the best way possible to do things in a studio circa 2015.

Circa 2016+ we will see the ability of multibit DSP than can be appled to the DSD stream. This will take things to levels never before experienced. This also happens to be the same technology I'll be using to apply the emulation profiles.

So I guess unless your amps are connected to the mic feeds, or everyone buys an R2R and obtains a vast selection of master tapes for their personal collection, we will have to settle with DSD 256 clones that are distinguishable from the master tapes, or else go with even superior recordings that are direct from the mic feeds in DSD 256, and DSP appled in multibit DSD DSP by the studio in the mastering process. Either way DSP will be applied in all circumstances, whether it's poor quality or great quality.

note to self;

ignore all Blizzard's comments on gear he has not heard or processes he has not personally done.

pay close attention to Blizzard's comments on things he is actually doing now.

check.

take out garbage.

check.

 

[Al M.]

note to self;

ignore all Blizzard's comments on gear he has not heard or processes he has not personally done.

pay close attention to Blizzard's comments on things he is actually doing now.

check.

take out garbage.

check.

Mike,

Yes, I have come to the same conclusion after experiencing this thread, which was my first close encounter with Blizzard.

pay close attention to Blizzard's comments on things he is actually doing now.

Does that mean you are going to try HQ Player --> chipless DSD? I would be really curious about your assessment of it in comparison with the Trinity (I am not interested in Blizzard's comments about the Trinity since he hasn't heard it).

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike,

Yes, I have come to the same conclusion after experiencing this thread, which was my first close encounter with Blizzard.

pay close attention to Blizzard's comments on things he is actually doing now.

Does that mean you are going to try HQ Player --> chipless DSD?

no doubt he is an expert on that stuff and so I pay close attention and appreciate his contributions. I do plan on trying the HQ Player PCM up sampling into the GG at some point. I either need my son to navigate it for me or I have to get up to speed myself. one way or another I will get there.

 

[Al M.]

no doubt he is an expert on that stuff and so I pay close attention and appreciate his contributions. I do plan on trying the HQ Player PCM up sampling into the GG at some point. I either need my son to navigate it for me or I have to get up to speed myself. one way or another I will get there.

Cool. Look forward to the results.

 

[Atmasphere]

Audio engineers (more often "suit" producers, actually) did a fine job of making a mess of analog recordings with signal processing when all those software plug-ins were the hardware boxes they're modeled from. Less is more is really hard for people.

Tim

We rarely agree, but in this case I could not agree more! Putting too much stuff in the signal path messes things up, analog or digital makes no difference.

So that statement would mean 99% of all digital audio is crap.

Your point?

However, there's even far superior DSP available than the 99% uses, and that's DSD 256 straight from the mic feed, or Analog master tape, and then conversion to DxD to apply the DSP. This is currently the best way possible to do things in a studio circa 2015.

Hmm. 'Best', huh? I think we can unequivocally state that this statement must be false, based on the fact of the word 'best' in it. Most of the members of this site have seen this before, and as I recall in the world of audio, its pretty well accepted that there is no 'best'. We can accept 'better' and that would make the statement true.

 

[Blizzard]

note to self;

ignore all Blizzard's comments on gear he has not heard or processes he has not personally done.

pay close attention to Blizzard's comments on things he is actually doing now.

check.

take out garbage.

check.

Ignorance is bliss, check

 

[Blizzard]

We rarely agree, but in this case I could not agree more! Putting too much stuff in the signal path messes things up, analog or digital makes no difference.



Your point?



Hmm. 'Best', huh? I think we can unequivocally state that this statement must be false, based on the fact of the word 'best' in it. Most of the members of this site have seen this before, and as I recall in the world of audio, its pretty well accepted that there is no 'best'. We can accept 'better' and that would make the statement true.

If you can explain the best way to master an album at the studio it would be great. Some examples of processes that don't use DSP would be great as well. And don't forget we are talking about how things are done today, not how they were done back in the 60's and 70's.

This is "What's best forum" Not "What's better forum"

Also if you can find a mastering process that anyone on the planet considers better than using Pyramix and DxD, please share as well. All the worlds top studio engineers can learn something new.

Maybe look into why DxD was created in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_eXtreme_Definition

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=1230


Ahh yes and some free DxD downloads. Play some back on your system with the MA-3 and let us know if the DSP processing they used killed the quality. Then keep in mind that the next gen multibit DSD DSP will be even better.


http://www.2l.no/hires/

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Well I can't imagine the audio gear manufacturers who make gear designed to add coloration are going to be up for selling $199 plugins like the prosound gear companies are doing with Universal Audio. why sell a $199 plugin when you can sell a $50000 amp? So likely the profiles will be named after the circuit topology describing that rather than specific products. Although some may open their minds up to it. We will see.

So you imagine higher prices, not necessarily higher quality. Not hard to imagine. That - simply higher prices - is, I suspect, why the plug-ins from Universal Audio are $199, when you can buy a modeling amp with a hundred or more plug-ins built in for...well, pretty much the price of the amp without the plug-ins. They're just a part of the value proposition of the modeling amp. I play Fenders, so the Fender models are branded, but there are other models built in. They get around the brand/licensing issues with names that are indicative of what they've modeled. "British 60s = a Vox AC30. British 70s = a 70s Marshall, etc. Then there are guys on the net who own the amps and have spent a lot of time tweaking them (it's a lot of fun if you're into that sort of thing) who start with the basic models and often get them even closer to the classic tones the models are associated with. Most of these are free downloads.

It's not a business model I expect the high end to embrace, frankly. And I suspect it's not an idea the high-end market is open to. I wouldn't hold my breath or invest much in it, personally. This model has been readily adapted by studio pros and musicians. Audiophiles? I have my doubts. One of the coolest subjects for discussion around here though.

Tim

 

[Blizzard]

Mike,

Yes, I have come to the same conclusion after experiencing this thread, which was my first close encounter with Blizzard.

pay close attention to Blizzard's comments on things he is actually doing now.

Does that mean you are going to try HQ Player --> chipless DSD? I would be really curious about your assessment of it in comparison with the Trinity (I am not interested in Blizzard's comments about the Trinity since he hasn't heard it).

Only thing is he must have a SOTA Chipless DSD DAC to use with hQplayer if he wants a hope in hell on beating the Trinity with redbook. Not one that uses 70 cent high jitters clocks for the delicate DSD clocking.

 

[Blizzard]

So you imagine higher prices, not necessarily higher quality. Not hard to imagine. That - simply higher prices - is, I suspect, why the plug-ins from Universal Audio are $199, when you can buy a modeling amp with a hundred or more plug-ins built in for...well, pretty much the price of the amp without the plug-ins. They're just a part of the value proposition of the modeling amp. I play Fenders, so the Fender models are branded, but there are other models built in. They get around the brand/licensing issues with names that are indicative of what they've modeled. "British 60s = a Vox AC30. British 70s = a 70s Marshall, etc. Then there are guys on the net who own the amps and have spent a lot of time tweaking them (it's a lot of fun if you're into that sort of thing) who start with the basic models and often get them even closer to the classic tones the models are associated with. Most of these are free downloads.

It's not a business model I expect the high end to embrace, frankly. And I suspect it's not an idea the high-end market is open to. I wouldn't hold my breath or invest much in it, personally. This model has been readily adapted by studio pros and musicians. Audiophiles? I have my doubts. One of the coolest subjects for discussion around here though.

Tim

Well if nobody wants to enable the different sound profiles they can always bypass them. Nobody will be obligated to use them. Much like the different filter options that several DAC's have on the market today. One can simply pick their favorite and leave it there, or bypass for a "straight wire with gain" configuration. That's what I use, but I'm not a fan of coloration.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Well if nobody wants to enable the different sound profiles they can always bypass them. Nobody will be obligated to use them. Much like the different filter options that several DAC's have on the market today. One can simply pick their favorite and leave it there, or bypass for a "straight wire with gain" configuration. That's what I use, but I'm not a fan of coloration.

Still not holding my breath. The mere offering of these models in "high end" would admit far too much.

Tim

 

[Blizzard]

Still not holding my breath. The mere offering of these models in "high end" would admit far too much.

Tim

I suppose it would be targeted towards those who value stunning sound quality, function, versatility, and reliability over traditional form factors.

Kinda like the target audience for the Ipad was, which everyone under the sun said would be a failure. We can't suppress innovation just because a handful of old school, close minded audiophiles don't understand the technology.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I suppose it would be targeted towards those who value stunning sound quality, function, versatility, and reliability over traditional form factors.

Kinda like the target audience for the Ipad was, which everyone under the sun said would be a failure. We can't suppress innovation just because a handful of old school, close minded audiophiles don't understand the technology.

Yeah, people have been predicting Apple's demise for decades...

Tim

 

[Gregadd]

Yeah, people have been predicting Apple's demise for decades...

Tim

they have been right a coupel of times too.

 

[Blizzard]

they have been right a coupel of times too.

Yeah they are doing horrible these days. Must be from following the status quo. If you don't follow the status quo you are nothing.

 

[rockitman]

Yeah, people have been predicting Apple's demise for decades...

Tim

Apple is in trouble going forward. The watch is a fail...they will introduce iPhone 7. They need a new innovative product.

 

[Blizzard]

Apple is in trouble going forward. The watch is a fail...they will introduce iPhone 7. They need a new innovative product.

They need to resurrect Steve Jobs. They lost the vision. Although ipad and iphone sales aren't doing too bad.

They were doing much better in the 90's when led by the status quo followers. I bet if Steve was still alive, and I knew him, he would most likely tell me to be original and build another tube amp. Not enough of them out there

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Oh good grief. I have been away from the thread for a day or so and come back to Blizz drawing parallels with himself and Steve Jobs - oh dear!

Out of morbid curiosity, what did your market research tell you about the market being interested and receptive to this "innovative" product? It seems to have a lukewarm reception here and pros are already catered for. The iPod / mass market brigade aren't going to be interested in anything but the new Beats of something alike. Therefore I am curious what your market segmentation plan looks like and where you feel you will sell this.